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Toonami Infolink :: View topic - Explaining the world through evolution :)
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Shazzan The
Impossibles Max Fleisher's Superman (a.k.a. Roulette) The Real Adventures of Johnny Quest Robotech Sailor Moon DragonBall Z Filmation Superman Batman Superfriends
ReBoot
Ronin Warriors G-Force Powerpuff Girls Batman: The Animated Series Gundam Wing Tenchi Muyo! Universe in Tokyo Superman Outlaw Star Big O CardCaptors Mobile Suit Gundam
O8th
MS Team DragonBall Batman Beyond Gundam 0080 Zoids: Zero Hamtaro Zoids: Chaotic Century Guardian Force G Gundam He-Man and the Masters of the Universe Transformers:
Armada
G.I. Joe .hack//Sign Yu Yu Hakusho Rurouni Kenshin QuickTime .mov MOV AVI .avi MPEG .mpg Movies movie Videos Clips Sounds articles rants essays images files CNX inner
circle
cn2 revolution Japan japanese multimedia saban funimation toei graz harmony gold mainframe Tyler Zogg TylerL
NEW YORK (Jan. 3) - The scientist who rocked the world with her announcement of the first human clone one week ago is now backing off promises of DNA testing to prove it.
Brigitte Boisselier, the chemist who heads Clonaid, which claims to have produced the clone, told a French television station Thursday that no DNA sample has been taken and the parents of the baby are reluctant.
''The parents told me that they needed 48 hours to decide yes or no - if they would do it,'' Boisselier told TV station France-2 in an interview.
_________________ "When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."- C.S. Lewis
"Superman can't be emo. He can't cut himself."-CP
Sat Jan 04, 2003 7:46 am
counterparadox
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
Wow, I was gonna bump this thread in order to ask a question, so that was good timing Nobu. I'm hoping the Krogoth will see this and respond. He's good at this stuff.
We had a speaker at our school talking about the ways our brain works (coolest presentation I've ever seen. The stuff he said made soooooooooooo much sense. And he said that Homework and exams has no point when you're concerned with learing stuff.) He said one thing that I thought sounded counter-evolutionary.
When we're nervous, our brain produces a chemical that inhibits signals in the brain. This is why when someone makes fun of you and you're intimidated by that person you don't know what to say, then you walk away and say to yourself "Damn, THAT"S what I shoulda said!" Confident people don't get nervous and thus quip back instantly. Also, if you're nervous about taking a test, you'll do poorly just because you're nervous.
So the quesiton is: What the hell? Shouldn't the brain produce a chemical that HELPS you when you're nervous? I mean, wouldn't that help a LOT more? This seems like it would inhibit survival of the species, no? _________________ anime is teh s uck
Play City of Heroes/Villians? Look me up, Pinnacle server, @C Paradox
Sat Jan 04, 2003 3:20 pm
Spookmonkey
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
no, this is the most primordial potion of the brain, it controlls the basic fuctions and extreme stimulous reactions. our fight of flight is due to this portion of the brain but since we are no longer running around either scared shitless of sabertooth tigers or hunting then down with spears that setion of the brain has "evolved" to work on todays current states of extreme stimulious reactions. Like the rush from video games is triggered from there, that burst of energy when we are cut off on the road (to either run the guy off the road or slam on the brakes) is also from there. I wish I could be more technical, but if you brought this up about 8 or 9 weeks ago I could have been much more exact in my descriptions and terminology, but no you had to wait for 2.5 weeks after I finished with psychology to bring it up. _________________ "Veni. Vedi. Spooki." - Julius Caesar
I came. I saw. I spooked.
Maybe when the fight-or-flight response is triggered, oxygen is shunted to the body. This means that the higher-level brain activities need to be curtailed. If it is the case, then it would provide a bit of a physical performance boost in times of fear, which is a good thing for survival in the wild.
Oddly enough, I am the complete opposite. When I get nervous, my physical strength, speed, and agility are dramatically decreased, while my mental functions are boosted. In this day and age, I consider this to be more useful. _________________ Krogoth uses Berserk.
Attacks are enhanced but defense weakens.
"Wait, that's not the cure button ... "
Sat Jan 04, 2003 8:53 pm
counterparadox
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
Still, it seems like without acurate brain function, (brain being the only thing we have going for us) the physical increase would be pointless and misguided. A waste of resources. Leading to death when facing a bear. Or embaressment when faceing a jackass. _________________ anime is teh s uck
Play City of Heroes/Villians? Look me up, Pinnacle server, @C Paradox
Sun Jan 05, 2003 10:58 am
Spookmonkey
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
both reactions in todays are a disadvatage. the fight or flight will at the very least get your ass out of immediate danger where as decreasing your strength and agility but boosting your brain power will make you know exactly how to go about gettting out and fixing the problem but make you slow enough that you'll just be smushed anyway. basicly we need a combination of the two for a perfect response, but that won't happen for a long time. _________________ "Veni. Vedi. Spooki." - Julius Caesar
I came. I saw. I spooked.
i stopped doing biology when i was 18, but from what we were told i would have guessed that, in a situation that brings about a nervous/scared reaction, u dont want to have to think about what to do. for example to use the previously mentioned sabre tooth tiger. so your prehistoric man and your walking along and some giant tiger jumps out infront of u. Now, some1 that doesnt have a nervous response might spend a few crucial seconds deciding what to do, he might consider whether the spear hes holding could facilitate the downfal of the tiger and win him respect among his peers(and/or the affections of women). While hes thinking about all this, the tiger is busy eating the mans breakfast from the inside of the mans stomach :/ not good. however, the nervous feeling causes the higher reasoning centres of the brain to be inhibited and therefore the taken action is based purely on instinct and is therfore much quicker possibly enabling this particular individual to escape + reproduce and pass on these traits.
this isnt so much an atempt to describe why some1 thought being nervous was a good idea, its more an atempt to explain why thousands of years ago, when evolution was more important for mankind, the trait of nervousness might have been selected FOR by the environment and therefore passed on from generation to generation.
Nowadays our environment would favour the more confident individual as most of the situations we face that have an outcome which might have a bearing on our potential to reproduce or not, are usually mental barriers as opposed to physical ones. i.e. u do well in exams, your confident aroun people, therefore maybe u attract women, or maybe u just meet more as u dont get shy, becoz u have good grades u get a good job further increasing your apeal as a prospective mate and therefore u have kids and pass on ur DNA. who knows in a few million years, people might never get nervous.
having said all that i might be wrong as i stopped studying biology a while ago, but we did 2 modules on behavior and evolution and i THINK i can remember most of it
i have a mate whos a second year biologist at uni, ill ask him he might be able to shead more light on the situation
Sun Jan 05, 2003 6:30 pm
Spookmonkey
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
that sounds about right, except that the instict is survival not confidence. Ok, I'll change the sabertooth tiger for a more modern threat. You're walking home one night and as you approach a corner a car comes speading around it on the sidewalk in front of you, you don't have time for thinkinga bout confidence and getting laid or finding a mate. Fight or flight has nothing to do with anything but survival. The problem is that it's now triggered by inapropriate things (like scary movies, the reaction to look away or cover your eyes is the flight portain, if you stare delibratly you are fighting the "killer" staring him down in order to trigger THEIR fight or flight, even though they are just projected images... it's a subliminal type thing). so umm... yeah. _________________ "Veni. Vedi. Spooki." - Julius Caesar
I came. I saw. I spooked.
yeah i agree, the instinct side of things is still important, but i would say that as success is measured these days by how much money u earn, and this in turn influences ur sexual apeal, that confidence has a stronger evolutionary advantage than it used to have. maybe in a few million years, the balance might be shifted slightly away from instinct to some middle ground, as u said before
Sun Jan 05, 2003 7:33 pm
counterparadox
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
True, but I'm talking more about being nervous, not afraid. As in you're walking down a dark ally. The mugger isn't there in front of you, but you can see him in your mind. _________________ anime is teh s uck
Play City of Heroes/Villians? Look me up, Pinnacle server, @C Paradox
Sun Jan 05, 2003 9:59 pm
Spookmonkey
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
that's being afraid, not nervousness. you're afraid of something you can't see or might not be there. nervous is what I am about my grades that I haven't seen yet. _________________ "Veni. Vedi. Spooki." - Julius Caesar
I came. I saw. I spooked.
Sorry, I would have said more yesterday but I had exactly 1 minute to type that message.
A lot of what you all have said has made sense. It just still seems to me that there must be a better solution. If you're completely caught off gaurd by a panda bear (ferocious things, those pandas.) then you'll run/kill it instantly. Instinct.
But if you're talking to someone and are nervous and they say something that makes you look dumb, then WHAM you freeze up and can't fight back. You think of something good to say later when you're out of the situation and it doesn't help you at that point. Why do our brains do this? Is there an advantage to not making the other twit look dumber than you? _________________ anime is teh s uck
Play City of Heroes/Villians? Look me up, Pinnacle server, @C Paradox
Mon Jan 06, 2003 12:13 pm
JohnnyPsycho
Joined: Nov 14, 2002
Post subject:
Force-Attuned_Krogoth wrote:
Why do pagans and Christians alike believe in the sanctity of Nature?
They don't... Paganism is a Nature-based religion, and Christianity is a much more social-based religion... Christianity forces a belief that humans have the dominion over all lands, fish, birds, and beasts under the sky (check your copy of the Bible and read Genesis over again). And while most Christians will agree that cloning is bad, it isn't necessarily because it's "unnatural" but because it goes "against God's plan". And for some reason, while the Pagans were just fine with living in the woods and trying to keep a balance with nature as best they could, Christians have historically taken whatever they deemed fit (like the Americas) because it was their manefest destiny to have dominion over the entire world. It was "God's Plan" that they take what they saw fit, even if it meant deep deforestation and the extinction of many species. Oddly enough, though Jesus would be considered a true Communist today, Christianity has historically moved across the maps in a very Capitalistic way...
and so ends my tiny rant... _________________ "The principles you live by create the world you live in; if you change the principles you live by, you will change your world." -Blaine Lee
"I plan to live forever. So far so good." -Steven Wright
Mon Jan 06, 2003 4:29 pm
Spookmonkey
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
counterparadox wrote:
Sorry, I would have said more yesterday but I had exactly 1 minute to type that message.
A lot of what you all have said has made sense. It just still seems to me that there must be a better solution. If you're completely caught off gaurd by a panda bear (ferocious things, those pandas.) then you'll run/kill it instantly. Instinct.
But if you're talking to someone and are nervous and they say something that makes you look dumb, then WHAM you freeze up and can't fight back. You think of something good to say later when you're out of the situation and it doesn't help you at that point. Why do our brains do this? Is there an advantage to not making the other twit look dumber than you?
That's because a person basicly lets themselves lockup in that situation, that is also a weak version of fight or flight, you two have been having the wittiest banter of your life for a few minutes (the fight) when they say something that just blows you away and you can't think of a retort (the flight) you just freeze because you are stunned that you weren't able to immediatly recall something to memory to counteract their statement. Basicly this is just training, See, I like pulling the witty banter and when I sense that the conversation starts to runaway from me, I pull my wildcard outof my ass. Randomness, I don't so much change the direction the train is going but derail it while it's going full tilt. It's amazing watching someone who thinks they are so much smarter and better than you get a look of shock and or disgust ont heir face as you make such a smalll insignifigant comment about how Kitties really do like to lick their own butt. Comments like that either destroy them completely with pain or with laughter. It's my ultimate weapon. I love it. What was I saying? I kinda took a left turn somewhere. _________________ "Veni. Vedi. Spooki." - Julius Caesar
I came. I saw. I spooked.
But you're missing the point a little. It's a chemical thing. When you're nervous, a chemical is released in your brain that inhibits thought. _________________ anime is teh s uck
Play City of Heroes/Villians? Look me up, Pinnacle server, @C Paradox
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