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  Toonami Infolink :: View topic - Explaining the world through evolution :)
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Explaining the world through evolution :)
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Force-Attuned_Krogoth

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Post subject: Explaining the world through evolution :)
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In this thread, we try to answer questions about humans and/or behavior patterns. In general, only two tools are used: evolution, and logic. Anyone can ask, and it will be answered.


I'm the Krogoth, and I'm listening.
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PostSat Nov 16, 2002 2:47 pm
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SlimJim

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(Real question) If evolution is real, then where are the proven specimens?
PostSat Nov 16, 2002 3:27 pm
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Gerbera345

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In all of the meuseums around the world.
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PostSat Nov 16, 2002 4:28 pm
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SlimJim

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??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

not the right answer.(The question was to say that evolution has many flaws...)
PostSat Nov 16, 2002 4:35 pm
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Gerbera345

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Like what?
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PostSat Nov 16, 2002 4:45 pm
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counterparadox

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Evolution has no flaws, Mr. Church-Zealot. Nor does evolution IN ANY WAY contradict the book of Genisus (Who's to say that God's divine plan wasn't to create man and the rest of the animals through evolution?)

But, for now, I shall not touch the subject of religion. So don't. Not in this thread. Not now at least.

Evloution happens like this. Take a monkey without a thumb and he's slow and stupid and no tail and can't climb. Take another moneky who's all of the above only he CAN climb well. If both are together, and an animal comes along that likes to chow down on monkey bits, the first one will get eaten because the second will climb out of reach. The second one has a better chance to live to such an age that he can have children and thus pass on his climbing genes.

And that's how evolution works. If an animal is more fit to survive, than it has a better chance to pass on it's genes and thus keep it's species alive.

Let's say that a river forms in an area, keeping half of 1 species of squirrel on one side, and the other half on the other side. They have no way to cross. Over time, a LONG time, the squirrels on one side will develop differently than the squirrels on the other. Just from random chance, maybe the squirrles on the left will get bushier tails and the squirrels on the right will get better hearing. Whatever helps, helps. Over time, such changes occur. The changes will even continue to such a point that the squirrels on the left would not be able to mate with the squirrles on the right were they to meet.

Evolution happens. We have more proof than you could shake a stick at in your entire lifetime. I'd give more examples now, but I need to do some homework, or else I'll be screwed tomorrow. (Damn shakespear, why the hell did he have to write such crappy stuff . . .)
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PostSat Nov 16, 2002 6:38 pm
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SlimJim

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I ain't going any further. I learned my lesson waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back when I tried it on Night. I got my butt kicked.
PostSat Nov 16, 2002 7:32 pm
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Force-Attuned_Krogoth

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I think I know what Jim was trying to get at. He's confused by the incomplete fossil record, for one thing. It's very true that we haven't uncovered a complete progression linking pairs of related species. However, it doesn't mean that evolution doesn't exist, or that it isn't responsible for some speciation. Evolution DOES explain changes within a single species, including some branching of the line. Also, we are easily able to trace certain distinctive characteristics of animals back through their history. This means it is quite likely that these animals were related at some point in the past, particularly if the characteristic in question bears little relevance to survival or reproduction. Even though we may not have found any interim proto-giraffes, we can say with great certainty that they are related to zebras, because the bone structure is nearly identical, with the exception of changes necessary to supporting the extra mass. How else would you explain such an inefficient configuration in the neck of the giraffe (it only has seven bones in its neck)?

Now I must address the problem of an incomplete fossil record. 'If we can show these creatures are related,' you might ask yourself, 'why haven't we found these proto-giraffes?' There are two possible answers to this question. The first (and, IMHO, most likely) explanation is that evolution is not the whole story. It is easily said that, given the currently accepted age for the Earth, there has not been enough time for random mutations to provide the amazingly successful diversity we see today. There likely is another process (call it God, retroviruses, or sheer force of will; it doesn't matter) that creates such radical changes in animals, and evolution only decides which becomes prevalent. This means that a relatively small number of interim creatures are required, and we haven't yet been lucky enough to find one.

The second solution is that conditions may have changed rapidly enough to force such changes. Competition is a very powerful method of invoking evolution, and, during the explosions of speciation, it may have been very lopsided. Those creatures who were first to exploit newly available resources were the ones who kept it. In this way, creatures prone to mutation were more evolutionarily viable. Populations in the interim states were more vulnerable than the established creatures, and those who made the change faster generally fared better. After the competition let up a bit, such mutations were more harmful than useful, and thus the predisposition was bred out through the same methods.

Please note that neither of these excludes a God or Over-soul. Each one has its 'why's that can be answered by divine intervention. Get over this whole "creation v evolution" crap. Learn to use the principle of Darwinian evolution, and possibly learn to love it. I know I have.
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PostSat Nov 16, 2002 7:52 pm
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GoufCustom

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What are your thoughts on the collective unconcious?
PostSat Nov 16, 2002 9:22 pm
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Ludwika

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Well, from evolution to behavior patters, then what might you say is the manifestation of fear? To be a little more indirect, isn't fear relatively just a metaphor of not knowing something whether good or bad in one's own self-consciousness?
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PostSun Nov 17, 2002 1:23 am
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Force-Attuned_Krogoth

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To Gouf: As humans (particularly Americans) we have elevated ourselves above evolution. There is little real impetus to be successful, because of all the "humanitarian aid" programs available. As a result, most people are becoming less able to think, and either need or prefer that someone do it for them. When this person comes along and exploits the stupid/lazy, we (rightly) blame the exploitees. They suffer from "collective unconsciousness" because we let them get away with it.

To Ludwika: Do you mean the physical manifestation of fear, which is easily explainable, or the reason we fear things such as the unknown? Or do you wish to know about the physical manifestation in the brain of our sense of fear?
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"Wait, that's not the cure button ... "
PostSun Nov 17, 2002 1:55 am
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counterparadox

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To Gouf: Where you talking about an information dump that all humans can add to and take from, only we never know we're doing it? Only reason I know of such a thing is because my bio teacher talked about it once.
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PostSun Nov 17, 2002 9:54 am
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GoufCustom

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The collective unconcious I am talking about; the connection of all minds into one entity. Check out Timothy Leary for an elaboration on this theory/notion. FAK, that's not the answer I was looking for, but it was a great explaination! Wink
PostSun Nov 17, 2002 10:14 am
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counterparadox

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Alright, yeah, this WAS what my bio teacher was talking about. I don't know that I really buy into it, nor can I deny that it exists. Basically, I haven't experienced proof that it exists, but I'm not going to deny it. Maybe psychics, real ones (if there are any, I mean (I'd like to think there are, but who can say? And who can say there aren't?)) are just good at tapping into this "Mind dump." I'll think about it more and get back to you. Hmm . . .
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PostSun Nov 17, 2002 10:31 am
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Zechs

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Hey you want a good book that discusses this read some stuff by Ben Bova particilarly Jupiter. Most of his storiess take place in a future ruled by Religios Zeolists who pretty much frown on/murder anyone speaking of or studying evolution.
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PostSun Nov 17, 2002 11:11 am
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