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Toonami Infolink :: View topic - War With Iraq - A thread for thoughts and discussion
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Impossibles Max Fleisher's Superman (a.k.a. Roulette) The Real Adventures of Johnny Quest Robotech Sailor Moon DragonBall Z Filmation Superman Batman Superfriends
ReBoot
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O8th
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Armada
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circle
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I guees we do tell every country what to do, it doesn't matter how armed they are.
We're not the divine example of a perfect country, but it's our sacred duty to force our way upon others. If they try to do that to us, it's considered an insult. _________________ "Robots don't say 'ye'."
"I'll show ye!"
Tue Mar 18, 2003 9:28 pm
stFalcon5
Joined: Nov 04, 2002
Post subject:
ToonamiL wrote:
Also, I'm a JW.
Which is...? _________________ "KUSANAGI!"
Tue Mar 18, 2003 9:58 pm
AdmiralGreer
Joined: Nov 08, 2002
Post subject:
This post has two sections- a rant and a few fact-pinions.
The "fact-pinions":
-Whether or not the war is justified, the soldiers deserve support, and DON'T deserve Vietnam era treatment- it's not their fault they're in combat.
-Iraq is contained, and keeping the sanctions on wouldn't make that many people shed tears.
-Assuming they use NBC weapons in the war that Dubya has so kindly scheduled for tomorrownight, France, Russia, Germany, and China will be proven wrong in their beliefs that our friend in Baghdad was disarming, and Iraqi word would mean even less then it does now. This will also proove that they were in violation of the sanctions placed on them post-Gulf War.
-Why does it matter if there's a war or not? Either way, that b4stard leading out country gets his way and keeps Iraq from taking rash actions- not that that's a bad thing(except that it benefits el Presidente).
Now the rant:
According to news available on all the major internet news sources and the cable stations, major events like the NCAA tournament, the MLB opener in Japan, and the Acadamy Awards are/might be scaled back. The baseball opener, Oakland vs. Seattle, has already been blasted to pieces. The basketball games(which mean nothing to me, but a whole lot to many others) might be bounced to cable/satellite channels. And the Acadamy Awards could be bumped from the ABC lineup or postponed. Why should a war, a fairly small war compared to the conflicts of the past century, affect our daily routine? Sure we have to support the troops, but unlike the Korea and Vietnam, there's no draft. Unlike the World Wars, the majority of our economy won't switch to wartime production. People aren't willing to fly because of "saftey issues". People simply aren't spending money. Come on America! So we got hit by terrorists and now we're going to war with a quarter of a million troops. The majority of Americans have not had their daily life adversely affected, unless it's because of morons and a$$holes who think that this sort of thing is the end. It's not! During this war, daily life will continue as planned for most of us! Whether it's anime, gaming, PC or video games, sports, shopping, eating, sleeping, reading, going to school, or for some of you hentai, even sex! NOTHING WILL CHANGE! There's no reason to change everything you do! Unless a catyclysmic even occurs... Things will work themselves out. Now go back to your homework or anime. I'm going to play some Warcraft III myself and get my mind off the stupidity that our increasingly conservative country puts out.
This was somewhat disorganized, since I was thinking as I typed... It feels more realistic that way. _________________ Ice cream has this erotic sense to it- kinda like the one choclate and strawberries have.
-Me
Wed Mar 19, 2003 12:15 am
Nobuyuki
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
stFalcon5 wrote:
ToonamiL wrote:
Also, I'm a JW.
Which is...?
Jehovah's Witness. FYI.
AdmiralGreer wrote:
Now the rant:
According to news available on all the major internet news sources and the cable stations, major events like the NCAA tournament, the MLB opener in Japan, and the Acadamy Awards are/might be scaled back. The baseball opener, Oakland vs. Seattle, has already been blasted to pieces. The basketball games(which mean nothing to me, but a whole lot to many others) might be bounced to cable/satellite channels. And the Acadamy Awards could be bumped from the ABC lineup or postponed. Why should a war, a fairly small war compared to the conflicts of the past century, affect our daily routine?
TV Ratings, pure and simple. Every network will want to be blasting war news 24/7, not wasting airtime for stuff people might actually be interested in (I'm already burned out by cable news overkill). _________________ "When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."- C.S. Lewis
"Superman can't be emo. He can't cut himself."-CP
Wed Mar 19, 2003 2:22 am
AnimePrime
Joined: Nov 08, 2002
Post subject:
War does nothing constructive. Look how destructive it has been to Slavery, German and Japanese imperialism, genicide on the Jews, the influx of communism around the world, and more terrorism.
Wed Mar 19, 2003 9:12 am
Spookmonkey
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
you're just using hollywood history there Mr. Prime. First off, war didn't do all that. So you're saying without the civil war we would still ahve slavery and we would just be all fine and dandy with our man servants serving us a tall frosty? Or perhaps that the germans and japanese would be much better off if we didn't respond to their threats and let them take over europe and asia? or what about the jews? the jews, who even if hitler didn't expand still would have been treated the same way just not so expansivly. did you know even thoguh 6 million jews were gassed and stuff in those camps, so were 5 million christians? yeah, bet you didn't realize it was that many. as for communism and terror.... communism is a perfectly ok form of government it just goes wrong when corrupt people get into power and they, being russia, took direct action against the united states seeing us as a threat to their way of life (wellt he commoners didn't but those few who were in power did) and it was vice versa as well. The cold war wasn't so much a war as a giant game of cat and mouse, bluffing here and their to see when and where your opponents would back down. In the end it was russias people who made them lose, not us. Terrorism though, needs to be stopped, if we have to use guns, tanks, bombs, planes, missiles to do it then so be it. The greatest good for the greatest number of people tends to be the governments thoughts on most matters, it is a very justifyable ethical code, and has been employed by governments for thousands of years. _________________ "Veni. Vedi. Spooki." - Julius Caesar
I came. I saw. I spooked.
1. The war is "justified," we gotta get Saddam out. The least that could be done is from a Kurdistan republic to the north and let the rest make a democratic vote on their new leaders after a few years of not occupation but surveillance by U.N. forces. But..
2. Bush fucked us over. He didn't get the U.N. backing. If he waited for Mr. Blix to finish his trip, wasn't so demanding for impending war (and more detailed inspections...we could've gotten France on our side with just that, folks), wasn't so...himself, we would have have a politically justified war. If the U.S. got U.N. approval, the Arab League couldn't help but agree. Instead, we now have a war that can be interpreted far too easily as a war signalling the U.S.'s bid for imperialism in the Middle East.
3. Bush started planning this war very soon after his presidency was confirmed...month's before 9/11/01. But that's not to say he hasn't milked what happened on those days to the fullest to support his cause.
4. North Korea has threatend military action agianst us. North Korea has admitted and is proudly boasting its nu-cu-ler power. North Korea has tested missles at times specifically to intimidate. Missles which DO have the ability to strike L.A. with a nu-cu-ler warhead. North Korea is not making any qualms about denying its intention to kill us all with sharp, pointy things/explosive crap. Iraq doesn't have a plane to reach anything with the letters U.S. on it except for soldiers in its own country. Oh yeah, between the No-Fly Zones. WHICH IS THE LARGER THREAT, IT'S NOT ROCKET SURGERY. :p
5. Bush last night: "*sniff*Please don't torch your oil fields.*sniff*". Looks like someone forgot that Enron can't pay him to say that anymore. Yes, this is also an attack on when Bush thought of attacking Iraq, as well as Enron's role in the (energy) policies of the current Aministregime.
6. Only American companies are being sold the right to rebuild Iraq. Not only is it only up for bid, but only to American companies. Think about it. You're thoughts should be along the lines of "bling bling."
I think this soapbox is worn out.
st's was the longest, so I'll start my Devil's Advocate responses with him.
1. Yes. He needs to go. His regime has been bleeding Iraq and it’s people dry. And then there’s the “killing own people” part. Time for him to be gone.
2. Hans Blix himself said they needed no more inspectors or detailed inspectors. And, remember, this is year 12 of resolutions. Are you saying that it’s ok that Saddam hid weapons/developed weapons (I cite the Al Sarmond missiles and warheads made for biological weapons) because hey, a couple weeks ago he started to cooperate, even though he should have years ago? (In other words, instead of acting too early, are we late? [Similar example with the genocide caused my Milosevic]) Just a thought, not perhaps a belief….
In addition, there was no way the resolution would pass. France would have vetoed it, even if the MAJORITY OF THE SECURITY COUNCIL APPROVED. Therefore, it was literally impossible for the U.S. to gain U.N. backing. (However, I still think we should have gone for the vote anyway, as then France would look like the policy stallers)
3. If you look back at previous administrations (no matter what the party) you find that every president has had plans for most contingencies involving war. It is common practice, and not something that would cause me to believe in a giant conspiracy.
4. North Korea’s announcements and newest tests are being watched by the U.S., and PACCOM is doing things about it, working with the Japanese government. I’m sure that once we deal with Iraq we will deal with North Korea. If you recall, it was named as part of Bush’s “Axis of Evil”. Unfortunately, no one in the news media seems to care that much. I could get into how this whole issue could act as a smoke screen for the upper elite class to help focus attention away from social inequality, but who wants that at this point……
5. While your choice of strange made up words makes your case weaker as you appear as a ignorant reactionary, you are right. Anyone who believes that oil has no impact as a deciding factor in this war for some individuals is a fool. However, those who believe that oil is the ONLY factor for this war are equal fools.
Comedy “Excellent Graphic Showing this Concept” option.
6. I’d like some more specific information on this. (Screw the concept of bid – that’s the way government contracts have worked since the 1940s. Get over it.) If only American companies are being offered the rights to rebuild the infrastructure, I worry slightly. If only American companies are being offered the chance to offer humanitarian aid, I squirm more and furrow my brow. If only American companies are being offered the chance to rebuild important key economic structure points such as oil fields and transportation services, I start to get pissed. If only American companies are being offered the rights period, I start shouting.
Wed Mar 19, 2003 3:18 pm
stFalcon5
Joined: Nov 04, 2002
Post subject:
I like your feedback Shinobo, but I'ld just like to clarify that the emphasis on my third point was on the second sentence, not the first.
And also, on my last point, wouldn't the "pre-selling" of the rebuilding process require a "minimum degree of flattening"? Or to quote a great poet of our era, "great burnination"?
2003:
Iraq: Pop.: Tire _________________ "KUSANAGI!"
Wed Mar 19, 2003 7:32 pm
counterparadox
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
Shinobo, that is one of the most profound pictures I've ever seen. I just thought you should know that it made me laugh and think then laugh then think again.
As for the war, what bothers me most is this: people don't think.
66% of America is behind Dubya. I'd estimate that about 25% of them actually thought through thier opinions, if that many. The media is controlling people, and it's pissing me off.
As for my views? I don't know. On the one hand, Saddam is a madman. On the other, Saddam is NOT the biggest threat to America AND we are simply giving Saddam motives to use whatever weapons he may have thus making our efforts counter-productive.
Another main point: A few months back the news was all "OSAMA OSAMA OSAMA OSAMA" and in under a week it became "SADDAM SADDAM SADDAM SADDAM". Doesn't anyone consider the possibility that Dubbya wants to be seen as an Evil-Doer-Taker-Awayer and if he can't get Osama (Percieved by the average American as the single most evil person in the world) then why don't we take down Saddam (percieved by the average American as the 2nd most evil person in the world.) 50% of my brain says this whole thing is a political ploy. _________________ anime is teh s uck
Play City of Heroes/Villians? Look me up, Pinnacle server, @C Paradox
Wed Mar 19, 2003 8:05 pm
Spookmonkey
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
Of course it's a political ploy. It's jsut Saddam really does need to be taken out on top of that even without Osama.
The US plans on a complete reconstruction of the Iraqian government and an end to the trade embargo against it. They will need american companies to start doing business in there, that is why it is american only. It was an america only trade embargo. _________________ "Veni. Vedi. Spooki." - Julius Caesar
I came. I saw. I spooked.
Well, if you've all been paying attention to the news, you know what's gone down in the past few hours. Officially or not, we are now entangled in this war. But before I send you scrambling to CNN, or possibly a reputable news source, I would like to get my few cents in:
1) I have to highly disagree with FAK on this one; the people of Iraq are not indifferent--they are opressed as opposed to ruled stupidly. Cuba, at only one time posed a threat to us, and containment's a lot easier on an island. And the biggest reason: Castro doesn't have someone worse that will succeed him. Have you heard what Saddam's kids are like?
2) It has been said that North Korea should be a higher priority target, and I have to agree. I do, however, think it better to attack Iraq first. An Iraq war will only last a few weeks, take minimal casualties, and be rather easy and one-sided. A war with N. Korea, however will take, at best a couple years. That long a war dishearten's people, and they won't be so willing to take out that only two thirds as dangerous guy brandishing anthrax in the Middle East.
3) I think it's terrible to call people against the war "unpatriotic," or "unamerican." The truth is, most of them have put more thought into thier arguments than those for war. I personally think we need more dissent than Tom Daschal--there is no guarantee against a despotic government without the voices of dissent being allowed to have thier say, and for them to be listened to seriously.
Oh, and as I side note, I've been looping three mixes of 99 Red Balloons for the past half hour. Just seems fitting... _________________ This space left intentionally blank.
Wed Mar 19, 2003 11:29 pm
Spookmonkey
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
John_Bono_Smithy_Satchmo wrote:
2) It has been said that North Korea should be a higher priority target, and I have to agree. I do, however, think it better to attack Iraq first. An Iraq war will only last a few weeks, take minimal casualties, and be rather easy and one-sided. A war with N. Korea, however will take, at best a couple years. That long a war dishearten's people, and they won't be so willing to take out that only two thirds as dangerous guy brandishing anthrax in the Middle East.
3) I think it's terrible to call people against the war "unpatriotic," or "unamerican."
As for 2., not only will the war with Saddam be over quickly it will boost american support to continue the war over to N. Korea, they (by they I mean we considering I'm part of the american public) will be much more willing to sent troops and stuff over to the jungles if we just had a "major" victory over in the middle east.
As for number three, I agree with you, but only if they put real thoguht behind being against the war. I know many people who are against the war for no other reason other than they can be. I ask why they say because Bush is evil. They then ask me whaat I think and I reply I really couldn't care I just want gas prices to drop. They then laugh and call be a bastard. Tehre are stupid uneducated, uninformed people blindly following the masses on both sides. _________________ "Veni. Vedi. Spooki." - Julius Caesar
I came. I saw. I spooked.
I just think that people like Saddam shouldn't be there. To remove him, use the most peaceful means as possible (which we've done), and if that doesn't work (and it hasn't), then move to "less peaceful means" (which is what's happening).
As for what John said on numbers 2 & 3, I agree. Isn't it the person's right to speak out against war? That means the people who call the people "unpatriotic" are really being unpatriotic themselves.
Thu Mar 20, 2003 8:06 am
Shinobo
Joined: Nov 05, 2002
Post subject:
Cooolcorey wrote:
That means the people who call the people "unpatriotic" are really being unpatriotic themselves.
That's an intelligent statement, unlike those who may fault the government or Homeland Security Department by trying and insinuating that they are going after the core of free speech. No offense, but I don't see protesters getting arrested or thrown in jail. Therefore, I don't see how this department could be challenging the first part of Freedom of Speech.
As for information supression or other such activities.....well, I'm still on the fence about that.
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