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Budokai 3 actually has I think 16 different training sessions you can take to figure out how to control your characters. (I got bored after 12). If you have played some old budokais, you know that you had to spin the analog sticks to do some moves. In the third version, you only spin the anolog sticks if you get into a beam struggle (both characters fire a beam of the same strength at the same time, that causes a struggle). It is also much harder to do special moves like spirit bomb or final flash. First you have to go into hyper mode (in this mode you can't powerup), you ki starts droping faster the usual. Then you have to click P-K-G-E at the same time to do some special move (you must hit the opponent in order for the move to work) or with the other moves you have to knock your opponent down and press E to enter dragonrush. Dragonrush is based on luck. Both players click a button for each stage. If defence clicks the same button as the offence, the dragonrush ends, if not it goes on to the next stage. After 3 stages, if the buttons are not mached, the attack fires a powerfull energy beam (if the skill is equiped) or simply punches the opponent really hard (if the skill is not equiped). Doing special move is much harder in this game, but at the same time it is really hard to win without them. This makes the game harder to beat and that much more interesting. Oh and another thing, in this version, if you block punches and kicks, you still get damaged, but there are new deffences like evading the attack (just like before you could move left and right to evade something, now you can just evade by clicking G right before getting hit) and you can telleport behind your opponent by using some of your ki. Powerups in this game like super sayan and fuse with kami are much better made in this game. Once you powerup, you don't powerdown unless you are downed with less then one Ki gauge. Also, with the higher powerups, the "permanent" ki gauges increase. By this I mean once your ki goes down to thouse gaueges, it does not go down anymore unless you use it for a move.
Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:18 am
LLG
Joined: Oct 07, 2004
Post subject:
That doesn't really sound that simple, and just because it has 16 different training sessions still doesn't mean that the controls are set up coherantly. In fact, why would anyone include more than ONE training session for controls if they were set up to be easy to use? It sounds to me like there is a serious lack of trust in their own control settings if the programmers included 16 different training sessions. And just because you are "trained" to use those controls, that still doesn't mean it's easy. I seriously believe that games should be user friendly- and what I mean by this is that I want to be able to go into a game store, pick up a game at random, go through the basic training to get a sense of how the controls work, and then be able to play the game without further instruction (save for when new items are introduced).
It seems to me that only the newer games have harder controls to use.
Older 3-D games such as what I am currently playing (Legend of Zelda: Ocearina of Time) make me happy. Sure, it takes some getting used to, to change angles and move around and aim, but at least you don't even need a BASIC training mode. Navi the fairy just pokes you along, telling you things that you end up figuring out on your own.
Also, you didn't address my concern about a story line. What kind of SL is there? same old saving the world?
Anyway, in other words, I think that I will stay away from something that has to have 16 different training sessions. Sounds just too damned hard to control for its own good. _________________ For every second John Bono spends reading one of your posts, there is a second where I'm not getting any sex. Please be concise.
Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:16 pm
Berserk_Fury
Joined: Aug 28, 2004
Post subject:
I don't really understand you. Are there any fighting games that are easy to control? In those games it is all about doing some special move to overpower your opponent, not just punch-kick-guard-punch-kick-guard. It has to be hard to do special moves, because if it wasn't, the game would just be too easy.
Sat Jul 30, 2005 8:44 am
JJc14
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
Just to get it out there beforehand, I've barely played Budokai 3 (most of my "interaction" with the game involves my friend completely destroying me whenever I'm over his place), but I have played the first two rather extensively and can probably help clarify. Berserk_Fury, feel free to correct me if my information is dated and/or wrong:
LLG wrote:
That doesn't really sound that simple, and just because it has 16 different training sessions still doesn't mean that the controls are set up coherantly. In fact, why would anyone include more than ONE training session for controls if they were set up to be easy to use? It sounds to me like there is a serious lack of trust in their own control settings if the programmers included 16 different training sessions.
I remember the tutorial for Budokai 2 being at least 12 sessions, but each session would last about 10-20 seconds of actually doing something (like one lesson would be "block x amount of times", another would be "gather x amount of ki", etc.) while the rest is just the characters explaining what to do beforehand. I haven't tried the training mode in Budokai 3, so I guess it's possible it could be a lot more extensive, but likely not in the sense you seem to be worried about...
LLG wrote:
Previous DBZ games have gotten poor ratings due how the controls were set up.
The controls in the first two Budokai games were actually slammed by reviewers because they were seen as too simplistic for a game in the fighting genre. You basically have your "Punch", "Kick", "Energy" and "Block" buttons over the main four buttons on a PS2 (X, Circle, Square, Triangle), and the shoulder buttons were mainly combinations of these functions that performed other moves (I think one combination was a "Taunt", but some would perform actual offensive maneuvers). Besides other minor additions (double-tapping forward would make you charge the opponent, holding Block and tapping back allows for you to "power up" to recharge ki, etc.), this was really just about it for the basics. Character specific moves are usually accomplished through combinations of Punch, Kick, and Energy, and they are clearly labeled in menu screens, as well as being accessible during a fight just by hitting Start.
From my limited exposure to Budokai 3, they appeared to take some steps to add-on alot more with the controls. There are ways to teleport behind your opponent, every character has some sort of Hyper Mode that they need to activate to get their killer move, and you can do a few other things that attempt to mimic the fighting in the actual show. You could still do things like I described earlier, but from how many times my friend was beating me down with those newer moves, it's likely you'll have to take the time to learn them. They're not so much 'difficult' to learn as they are 'more things to keep in mind' while fighting, which makes it rough starting out but I'd assume becomes natural over time.
I can't tell from your posts whether or not you've played a previous Budokai game, LLG. If you haven't yet, I'd suggest finding the first one that came out a few years back, since it'd serve as a good introduction to the gameplay the sequels have since made additions to. Plus, the first game had a great (albeit short) "Story Mode", where you got to play out the scenes from early DBZ through the Cell story arc, along with a few "what if" scenarios had the bad guys won. It might all look a little dated now, but it really is quite fun, and once you get the controls down, Budokai 3 shouldn't be a problem.
If there's anything else you need to know, please don't hesitate to ask... _________________ "Life's a journey, not a destination..." -Aerosmith ('Amazing')
Current RPG(s): (None)
Sat Jul 30, 2005 10:28 am
John_Bono_Smithy_Satchmo
Joined: Nov 13, 2002
Post subject:
Actually, Berserk Fury, there are a few games with rather sinple controls. Super Smash Bros. Melee is a shining example, and it's still in the top 5 of most played fighting games today. It has a wonderful control scheme; only two attack buttons, a block, grab, and jump button. But all the intricacies within still make it a fun game and lend it a very even learning curve.
By contrast, take Marvel Versus Capcom 2. This is a completely impenetrable game based off archaic, sometimes super-long key combinations that don't make sense. Do you simply want to throw a fireball? Press three directions then punch. And that's the simplist move besides merely kicking or punching. Controls are listed nowhere, and a player is required to guess button combinations or have them memorized from a previous game. Why should memory and fast fingers be considered part of the skill of the game. Aren't video games about how quick your mind is? The only video games that should force interaction with the controller to be difficult are music based games. _________________ This space left intentionally blank.
Sat Jul 30, 2005 12:40 pm
Berserk_Fury
Joined: Aug 28, 2004
Post subject:
John_Bono_Smithy_Satchmo wrote:
Actually, Berserk Fury, there are a few games with rather sinple controls. Super Smash Bros. Melee is a shining example, and it's still in the top 5 of most played fighting games today. It has a wonderful control scheme; only two attack buttons, a block, grab, and jump button. But all the intricacies within still make it a fun game and lend it a very even learning curve.
By contrast, take Marvel Versus Capcom 2. This is a completely impenetrable game based off archaic, sometimes super-long key combinations that don't make sense. Do you simply want to throw a fireball? Press three directions then punch. And that's the simplist move besides merely kicking or punching. Controls are listed nowhere, and a player is required to guess button combinations or have them memorized from a previous game. Why should memory and fast fingers be considered part of the skill of the game. Aren't video games about how quick your mind is? The only video games that should force interaction with the controller to be difficult are music based games.
I agree with you. In Budokai 1 and 2 all the moves were listed. The only thing that could stop you from doing it becuase first you had to learn it, then you had to put it as a skill (and there is a very limited ammount of skills you can have). In Budokai 2 I would pick vegeta with ssj, ssj2, galic gun, angel halo (in the old budokais your power would drop very fast if you were in ssj 2, this skill stop it from droping) and senzu bean and he will be unbeatable. I didn't need any of the super moves to win. They were boring anyway because you just had to click several buttons at one. In Budokai 3 they made it much harder. First of all, senzu bean takes up much more space and you actually have to use it (in the old games it activated by itself when your health ran out). Because of this I stoped using it. In this game it is almoust impossible to beat someone like omega shenlong without at least having ssj4. To have ssj 4, you required all the other 3. This took up a lot of space, so now I just stick with the breakthrough. In this game having the super moves like super spirit bomb/super dragon fist and warp kamehameha for goku or Big Bang attack and Final Flash for vegeta. The final flash is much harder to do then big bang since you had to win 3 stages before the character attacks. With big bang, you have to p-k-g-e (R2) your opponent while in hyper mode, but that took a lot of power. If you want an easy game, get Budokai or Budokai 2. If you want a long story (no more board games like in the 1st and 2nd game, here you actually fly over the world looking to battles and such), more characters, and better looking moves, get Budokai 3.
Mon Aug 01, 2005 11:56 am
Vegito1471
Joined: Aug 15, 2004
Post subject:
only thing that I dont like about budokai 3 is the dragon rush. Its okay by itself but it sucks when you have to do something like the warp kamehameha after three successful stages of the dragon rush. The rest of the game is 9/10. _________________ Anime Conquers all.
1.Dragonball Z
2.Naruto
3.Yu Yu Hakusho
Tue Aug 02, 2005 8:43 pm
Berserk_Fury
Joined: Aug 28, 2004
Post subject:
thats why I'd rather do super spirit bomb or super dragon fist.
Dragonrush is just too hard to win.
Otherwise, I think that this game is a really good fighting game.
Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:20 pm
Vegito1471
Joined: Aug 15, 2004
Post subject:
I agree. _________________ Anime Conquers all.
1.Dragonball Z
2.Naruto
3.Yu Yu Hakusho
Wed Aug 03, 2005 8:54 pm
John_Bono_Smithy_Satchmo
Joined: Nov 13, 2002
Post subject:
Still wonder why no one's jumping to give you an award?
You're a post whore. _________________ This space left intentionally blank.
Wed Aug 03, 2005 11:17 pm
Vegito1471
Joined: Aug 15, 2004
Post subject:
What else do you want me to respond wit? _________________ Anime Conquers all.
1.Dragonball Z
2.Naruto
3.Yu Yu Hakusho
Thu Aug 04, 2005 6:54 am
John_Bono_Smithy_Satchmo
Joined: Nov 13, 2002
Post subject:
Either, "I agree" followed by the reasons you agree, or just don't post. You don't have to post in every thread you read. _________________ This space left intentionally blank.
Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:43 am
LLG
Joined: Oct 07, 2004
Post subject:
Switching subjects but staying on topic- has anyone played any good PC games lately? I haven't been able to since my keyboard went to crap. Also, what are people's favorite PC games? My favorites are: The Neverhood, Diablo 2 (expansion set), and City of Heros.
_________________ For every second John Bono spends reading one of your posts, there is a second where I'm not getting any sex. Please be concise.
Sun Aug 14, 2005 1:36 pm
Chibi_Zero
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
The last PC games I played were Planetside and Starcraft: Brood War(I DEMAND A SEQUEL). I do want to play F.E.A.R but I doubt my PC will be able too. _________________ "I'm just very selective about the reality I choose to accept." - Calvin
Because blogs make you cool.
Sun Aug 14, 2005 1:51 pm
Vegito1471
Joined: Aug 15, 2004
Post subject:
John_Bono_Smithy_Satchmo wrote:
Either, "I agree" followed by the reasons you agree, or just don't post. You don't have to post in every thread you read.
Read what I posted before that, genius. _________________ Anime Conquers all.
1.Dragonball Z
2.Naruto
3.Yu Yu Hakusho
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