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Toonami Infolink :: View topic - My weekly Protestant rant
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Shazzan The
Impossibles Max Fleisher's Superman (a.k.a. Roulette) The Real Adventures of Johnny Quest Robotech Sailor Moon DragonBall Z Filmation Superman Batman Superfriends
ReBoot
Ronin Warriors G-Force Powerpuff Girls Batman: The Animated Series Gundam Wing Tenchi Muyo! Universe in Tokyo Superman Outlaw Star Big O CardCaptors Mobile Suit Gundam
O8th
MS Team DragonBall Batman Beyond Gundam 0080 Zoids: Zero Hamtaro Zoids: Chaotic Century Guardian Force G Gundam He-Man and the Masters of the Universe Transformers:
Armada
G.I. Joe .hack//Sign Yu Yu Hakusho Rurouni Kenshin QuickTime .mov MOV AVI .avi MPEG .mpg Movies movie Videos Clips Sounds articles rants essays images files CNX inner
circle
cn2 revolution Japan japanese multimedia saban funimation toei graz harmony gold mainframe Tyler Zogg TylerL
I recently had an argument with my mother about the futility/pain of my going to church every Sunday. Unfortunately, she said that she would make me, because it's supposedly necessary for the health of the church. However, I have problems with it. Whenever I'm there, I find myself biting back all my usual sarcastic comments and not-quite relevant questions. However, I do need an outlet. This is my place. If you have something to say about my observations, speak it. If not, just allow my my own little corner to yell at.
This morning, I gleaned the following out of the discussions:
1. Man is responsible for failure; God for success. Someone, please show me how this is true.
2. People worship false gods. What, other than the fact that they're not the one you're currently in love with, makes these "false gods" false?
3. God gives us our intellect, to do what we wish. This allows us to create things. God then punishes us for not sharing with those who don't do anything with their god-given talents. Is this really fair? Why did this "God" fellow make us if he wanted us to accomplish some specific task? He's either dumb or . . . really dumb. He gave us free will, independent judgement, and then is trying to tell us to believe/submit to him.
4. Religion stems from the desire to believe that life is fair. The afterlife exists solely to reward life. WHY???
If anyone can show me any logical basis for any of this, let me know. _________________ Krogoth uses Berserk.
Attacks are enhanced but defense weakens.
"Wait, that's not the cure button ... "
Sun Jan 26, 2003 8:41 pm
Cooolcorey
Joined: Nov 08, 2002
Post subject:
My conclusion is....
you think too much.
Sun Jan 26, 2003 8:53 pm
JJc14
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
well, i'll do my best here (keep in mind i don't consider myself part of any faith at this point in my life):
1.) i guess for those believing in a higher power, he/she/it would have to be a "better" or "higher" standard than what the person considers human beings to be...
2.) i think "worship" is too strong of a word to describe what i'm assuming the discussion was about...it's one thing to follow/like/love something, but "worship"...almost makes the god of the church seem a bit egotistical in a way...
3.) this was one of my issues when going through catholic high school...i share a similar viewpoint, questioning the logic of this idea...
4.) ha! it took me a minute to understand the connection between those two statements, but after it clicked, i see what you're saying...i wonder how a high-position religious figure would answer that...
just out of curiosity, what specific faith are you commenting on? i was raised a methodist, so i'd just like to know... _________________ "Life's a journey, not a destination..." -Aerosmith ('Amazing')
Current RPG(s): (None)
Sun Jan 26, 2003 10:00 pm
counterparadox
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
I'm Catholic, and I do just what you do. I sit in church getting mad at the fact that the Pope didn't appologize to Galileo for 500 years, and how the old people sitting there don't actually know what it is the believe in. Sure, they think they do, but they don't.
Although, seeing as how I go to a catholic school, I can give you the answers that are supposed to be used against your questions.
1) Man is lazy and self centered. It is our duty, through free will, to over come this. God gives us talents. It's a disrespect to God not to use them. The haves must give to the Have-nots. This is what makes charity a necessity for Christians.
2) People gamble, drink, etc. Anything that takes over a significant portion of your life is a false god. Do you pray to the anime god? No. But are you a few steps away from it taking over your entire life? If so, then you are, in effect, praising a false god without even trying to do so.
3) Think of it this way. Let's say you compete in Debate club. (Just cuz it's the first thing to pop into my mind.) You beat someone really good. You're happy. Then you find out that he let you win cuz he was paid to do so. Kinda makes you feel jipped, and pathetic that he had to LET you win. It's not entirely the same, but God gives us intellect because we're not supposed to phone it in. It's our duty to use it right. To compete right. To not let others win.
4) See, I'm iffy on the afterlife. Part of me thinks it was created just to convince people that doing good leads to Heaven. Some people would not do good otherwise. The whole point is we're here to be moral people. _________________ anime is teh s uck
Play City of Heroes/Villians? Look me up, Pinnacle server, @C Paradox
Mon Jan 27, 2003 9:19 am
dougisfunny
Joined: Oct 29, 2002
Post subject:
Supposedly we are inherently sinful, it is in our nature to sin. The free will we were given by god causes us to sin, and only through gods grace can we be saved...
As CP said, idolotry is in escense the false god. You iddolize something or love it more than a god. Or in another sense our one true god is the true god because he has more exp points than the others and wins. You tell me which...
Well, strange thing is before Judas was born god already knew he was going to betray Jesus. He was going to hell for it no matter what. God created him knowing full well he was going there. he said I'm going to create this guy so he can go to hell, just so i can get my plans done. If he had created judas differently it would have made his decisions different would it not? Had he created him with a limp or two left feet. Or made his brain act slightly differently. Now God didn't give him the choice to choose to believe in Jesus, because he had to betray him. you figure that one out.
Well when Adam and eve did the nasty stuff, they tainted the entire human race. God still loves us, and wants us to be joyful. But nonetheless, we are still sinners due to the stuff A&E did. So we have no choice to live this life and hope we are believe enough to get back to eden/heaven. _________________ The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
Mon Jan 27, 2003 1:14 pm
funkymunky
Joined: Jan 02, 2003
Post subject:
To be perfectly honest (and im not trying to offend anyone here) organised religion is a form of control, and while it brings a lot of people some kind of sense of purpose and belonging, it is responsible (or rather one persons intepretation of it is responsible) for a lot of utterlly inhuman acts of violence. For example, the crusades, sept 11th.
I'm not saying im without a spiritual side, quite the oposite. I believe that this life is maybe not quite the be all and end all. But i dont go as far as to ascribe to any particular faith.
Mon Jan 27, 2003 3:10 pm
counterparadox
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
Religion is great. Yet no religion is the "one true religion."
Gandhi was asked what he thought about Christianity and he said something like: "Oh, I think it's a great thing. I just wish someone would actually try it." _________________ anime is teh s uck
Play City of Heroes/Villians? Look me up, Pinnacle server, @C Paradox
Mon Jan 27, 2003 9:39 pm
Nobuyuki
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject: Re: My weekly Protestant rant
Force-Attuned_Krogoth wrote:
If anyone can show me any logical basis for any of this, let me know.
That's where you're going wrong. Expecting to be able to explain an emotion-based belief system with cold hard logic. Can't be done. _________________ "When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."- C.S. Lewis
"Superman can't be emo. He can't cut himself."-CP
Mon Jan 27, 2003 10:09 pm
Force-Attuned_Krogoth
Joined: Nov 10, 2002
Post subject:
Doug, are you supposed to be Calvinist? I particularly have a problem with predestination. Refer to question three. If God supposedly knew what he was doing, why would he make his job difficult? I can only see two reasons for this.
1. God is a moron. Simply implying this would piss off a hell of a lot of people. Nobody wants to be lead by a visible idiot. I know I don't.
2. God ain't all he's cracked up to be. Basically, this means that God needs us for something, as he's not, by himself, omnipotent. The most logical explanation is that there are many deities, and their only power comes from believers. This would account for the "my way or the highway" approach of most theistic religions. For a more in-depth look at this, try the game "Black & White" or Ben Bova's Orion Among the Stars. I particularly reccommend the latter.
Personally, I am more leaning toward the latter, although this could be sheer unconscious insistence that I am important. If there are many gods vying for my attentions, then I have the right to choose the one most suited to me. I don't have to conform myself to the Judeo-Christian ideals. Remember, "Man is forced to accept masochism as his ideal -- under the threat that sadism is the only alternative. This was the greatest fraud ever committed on mankind."
Is there any indication that egoism is either better or worse than altruism?
Note to Nobu: I meant "Is there any way to explain this other than 'I feel it in my heart, which oddly enough is not even the center of my hormones'?"
On the bright side, we will be investigating the hidden messages of songs soon. I gave our mentor Yatta! _________________ Krogoth uses Berserk.
Attacks are enhanced but defense weakens.
"Wait, that's not the cure button ... "
Mon Jan 27, 2003 10:42 pm
Nobuyuki
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
Force-Attuned_Krogoth wrote:
Note to Nobu: I meant "Is there any way to explain this other than 'I feel it in my heart, which oddly enough is not even the center of my hormones'?"
I understood you the first time. The answer is still, "No."
Quote:
On the bright side, we will be investigating the hidden messages of songs soon. I gave our mentor Yatta!
Yay! Please share the reaction. It should prove quite entertaining... _________________ "When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."- C.S. Lewis
"Superman can't be emo. He can't cut himself."-CP
Tue Jan 28, 2003 4:04 am
dougisfunny
Joined: Oct 29, 2002
Post subject:
Force-Attuned_Krogoth wrote:
Doug, are you supposed to be Calvinist?
haven't you noticed the avatar lately?
and yes predestionation is kinda silly... I don't get it either. He gave us free will to choose him, but without his calling us to him we will continue our sinful ways. Or another way to look at it is, He is omnoscient, so he knows the future, or can at least infer the future because hes smart and knows everything, and what everyone is thinking and can predict it, but he still puts challenges before us to overcome... and i dunno its all just silly. _________________ The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
Tue Jan 28, 2003 10:42 am
counterparadox
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
Well, if it is eitehr of these options, then no, God is not a moron:
In answer to your #2, it could be that God, being a creator and all, would need to create. I veer from traditional view by saying that humans are not the ultimate creation. As a species, we suck. We're not as intelligent as our pompous attitudes say we are either. Sure, a few people are, but we aren't, on the whole, geniuses.
So, being a creator, he created us for either entertainment, or a few other reasons.
Also, it could be that there is only on God, but many souls. In this case, it could truely be that we our on Earth to prove our worthyness for heaven. And if heaven is somewhat like how it is deisplayed in Non Sequitor where whatever you wnat to do, you can instantly do (and everyone is naked), then who wouldn't wnat to be there.
Oh course this is all mindless speculation none of which I actually believe in. I don't know what I believe in. I do know that I don't like organized religion, but I DO think that people should be more religious. And that isn't a paradox. _________________ anime is teh s uck
Play City of Heroes/Villians? Look me up, Pinnacle server, @C Paradox
Tue Jan 28, 2003 5:10 pm
Force-Attuned_Krogoth
Joined: Nov 10, 2002
Post subject:
My view on the whole concept of a god is that it is a bad theory. It creates a hell of a lot of questions that are important, if you take the basic principle to be true. Outside of itself, it only answers one question: Why does stuff only happen some of the time?
The Anthropic Principle covers everything else usually attributed to divine intervention. _________________ Krogoth uses Berserk.
Attacks are enhanced but defense weakens.
"Wait, that's not the cure button ... "
Tue Jan 28, 2003 6:41 pm
funkymunky
Joined: Jan 02, 2003
Post subject:
I study theoretical physics at a university over here in the UK, and while you'd think thats the uber anti-religion course (science denying god n'all), there are many 'facts' about the nature of our universe that are needed and yet totally unexplained. in other words, if several things were NOT the way they were then our universe could not exist. I would go into an example but you'd probably all fall asleep whithin the first few lines . there are other explanations for this, as i'm sure anyone who has read 'a bried history of time' will know. but, and call me a romantic if u will, i'd like to believe that its because there is some inteligence at work behind it all, at least at the very beginning.
Wed Jan 29, 2003 7:44 am
Zechs
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
funkymunky wrote:
. there are other explanations for this, as i'm sure anyone who has read 'a bried history of time' will know..
Hmm, sounds like a good book. _________________ Bang.
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