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Toonami Infolink :: View topic - Ban against sales of M rated games to minors
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Post subject: Ban against sales of M rated games to minors
Its finally going to be purposed here in Oklahoma and I'm fricken happy! Why you ask? Because with more and more states jumping on this bandwagon, there should be a decrease in the number of racist 10 year-old southerners playing online FPSers.
Don't like my view? Well tuff. But look at it this way: with this kind of restriction placed on minors, the blame for teen violence and violent video games can finally be pointed at the real cause; parents who buy the games for the kids.
I'm so happy. I'm gonna write my county rep and ask him to support this.
Add in:
I wanted you guys to all know that I'm not stupid enough to think this will solve the problem. Parents will still buy this crap for their kids. But at least the industry will be off the hook.
Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:14 am
Beefy
Joined: Nov 13, 2002
Post subject:
I thought stores were already required to check if someone was over 17 before selling them a M rated game. _________________ "Robots don't say 'ye'."
"I'll show ye!"
Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:46 am
John_Bono_Smithy_Satchmo
Joined: Nov 13, 2002
Post subject:
All the large national chains do actually require their employees to check ID, just like at a movie theater. Though just like at the movie theater, it's a voluntary practice like not admitting minors to a rated R movie instead of actual law.
This would constitute a step beyond that, which I disagree with, but that's because I oppose censorship as a whole. _________________ This space left intentionally blank.
Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:13 am
KingSpanky
Joined: Dec 25, 2004
Post subject:
The way I view it, its not really censorship. I'm an adult, I can watch what I want. Kids/teens are not adults and therefore have no say in the matter. Plus if this was really censorship, they would be removing content from games or even removing the violent games period. Personally I think this is for the best.
Oh and one last thing bono. This is only a ban against Minors buying M rated games. Parents can still buy it or copies can be borrowed from friends if the kid really wants to play the game.
Now if they actually begin to filter or limit the creations of the game developers, then thats what I would call censorship.
Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:22 am
John_Bono_Smithy_Satchmo
Joined: Nov 13, 2002
Post subject:
So tell me then when the brain is developed enough to view violent material that has been arbitrarily defined material. Perhaps I can get some man in a lab coat to vouch that a person isn't "mature" enough to view "Mature" content until the age of thirty.
I remember being a kid. I remember not being able to watch one movie or another because I was obviously too young and too stupid and too impressionable to watch it.
And even the rating systems are flawed. You can blow the hooker's head off, but you can't have awkward, barely-naked, pixilated sex with her? (Well, you can off screen, but that seems entirely beside the point.)
A couple of nights ago, LLG and I went to see the new War of the Worlds movie, and I can tell you I was scared shitless (well, not literally, but pretty damn close). This was the scariest, creepiest, darkest movie I have ever seen. EVER. Like Schindler's list caliber here. And it was rated PG-13. PG-13! Watch this movie, then watch any of say, the Matrix movies, and ask yourself which you'd rather have your hypothetical children watch based on content.
If the MPAA can't properly rank a movie, how do expect a rinky-dink (by comparison at least) organization to do a better job in an unexplored medium, and then applying legal consequences to obviously flawed decisions.
So now that we can make the equivelant of a rated R movie illegal to sell to children, and the system for rating a system is incredibly flawed, we'll start to see a situation where ratings can be really based on political content. You can bet your ass that movies like Bowling for Columbine and Ferenheit 9/11 would've been PG-13 if someone on the other side of the political spectrum had made them. And no one under a certain age can see this? And the method for determining that age is completely arbitrary, or even what determines the content for that age?
Perhaps nothing remotely controversial, sexual, or violent should ever be printed, distributed, or filmed because you run the risk of the human brain assimilating information and getting an idea. (Oh noes!)
Because that's what this is all really about: controlling ideas for one's own advantage. And I know it's a very long, and not very steep or very slippery slope to 1984, it's still asinine bullshit to the core. _________________ This space left intentionally blank.
Fri Jul 29, 2005 2:00 am
AdmiralGreer
Joined: Nov 08, 2002
Post subject: Re: Ban against sales of M rated games to minors
KingSpanky wrote:
Its finally going to be purposed here in Oklahoma and I'm fricken happy! Why you ask? Because with more and more states jumping on this bandwagon, there should be a decrease in the number of racist 10 year-old southerners playing online FPSers.
Racist 10 year old southerners are fun to harass. I've even seen admins doing it. The nice thing is they can't call out the KKK on you. And Oklahoma politicians are crazy. Your local guy will probably vote the other way just because you asked him to vote one way.
As to the neverending debate on restricting games, I suggest we all think about other root causes of youth violence- since I doubt most of the "gangsta" types have played many games and the same goes for white supremecist types ("we only buy made in the USA!" ). Obviously something else motivates them to do their thing. But what is that "something else"? Leave entertainment out of this. _________________ Ice cream has this erotic sense to it- kinda like the one choclate and strawberries have.
-Me
Fri Jul 29, 2005 3:38 am
Zechs
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
Ignorance. It's The Drug of Choice. _________________ Bang.
Fri Jul 29, 2005 4:45 am
Berserk_Fury
Joined: Aug 28, 2004
Post subject:
That doesn't really surprise me since that stuff is here in NY for a long time already (even though its a law, all small videogame stores don't follow it). I think some of you might have heard about the GTA San Andreas mod called hot coffee? Its a mod which unlocks hidden content in the game where you can make the characters have sex. Now that this is out in the open, the game changed its rating from "M" to "AO". This I don't really see the point in. The "M" rated games are made of 17 or older. "AO" is made for 18 or older. I don't think one year makes that much of a difference. I mean really, are there any 17 year olds who haven't at least seen sex before? Only the perverts would actually use that mod and I don't think this should have made the stores take this game of their shelves.
Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:02 am
KingSpanky
Joined: Dec 25, 2004
Post subject:
John_Bono_Smithy_Satchmo wrote:
So tell me then when the brain is developed enough to view violent material that has been arbitrarily defined material. Perhaps I can get some man in a lab coat to vouch that a person isn't "mature" enough to view "Mature" content until the age of thirty.
I remember being a kid. I remember not being able to watch one movie or another because I was obviously too young and too stupid and too impressionable to watch it.
And even the rating systems are flawed. You can blow the hooker's head off, but you can't have awkward, barely-naked, pixilated sex with her? (Well, you can off screen, but that seems entirely beside the point.)
A couple of nights ago, LLG and I went to see the new War of the Worlds movie, and I can tell you I was scared shitless (well, not literally, but pretty damn close). This was the scariest, creepiest, darkest movie I have ever seen. EVER. Like Schindler's list caliber here. And it was rated PG-13. PG-13! Watch this movie, then watch any of say, the Matrix movies, and ask yourself which you'd rather have your hypothetical children watch based on content.
If the MPAA can't properly rank a movie, how do expect a rinky-dink (by comparison at least) organization to do a better job in an unexplored medium, and then applying legal consequences to obviously flawed decisions.
So now that we can make the equivelant of a rated R movie illegal to sell to children, and the system for rating a system is incredibly flawed, we'll start to see a situation where ratings can be really based on political content. You can bet your ass that movies like Bowling for Columbine and Ferenheit 9/11 would've been PG-13 if someone on the other side of the political spectrum had made them. And no one under a certain age can see this? And the method for determining that age is completely arbitrary, or even what determines the content for that age?
Perhaps nothing remotely controversial, sexual, or violent should ever be printed, distributed, or filmed because you run the risk of the human brain assimilating information and getting an idea. (Oh noes!)
Because that's what this is all really about: controlling ideas for one's own advantage. And I know it's a very long, and not very steep or very slippery slope to 1984, it's still asinine bullshit to the core.
Whoa there sparky, slow down. You are an adult. This will not effect you. You can still see everything you want to see.
You make a valid argument but you're forgeting one major point: youth have no rights till they are 18. So it doesn't matter if you feel your kid is "mature" enough to watch someone's head get blown off. The youth of today live in a world where they think they have the rights of a normal adult. This is wrong. They have no rights. There is no right to privacy from parents, there is no right to drive, and certainly they have no "right" to play games rated M until 17.
Going by your thinking there bono, youth should be able to drink and smoke whenever they decide that they are "mature" enough. This is bullshit. Teens are still under-developed human beings. Hell, if you've ever wanted to question the decisions of teens/youth, watch the Nick teen choice awards.
Call me a dictator or or even a future mean parent, but my kids will have no real "freedom" till the legal age where I can no longer tell them what to do.
AdmiralGreer wrote:
But what is that "something else"? Leave entertainment out of this.
And it will be left out and compeletly intact as far as content. The only thing this will do is put out a law that will supposedly keep kids from buying games above their age limit. While I generally don't support bans of this sort, they finally added the phrase "to minors" at the end, therefore i'm not effected. They will still sell these games at walmart, except now stores face harsh penalties for selling games to actual kids.
And for the last time: THIS IS NOT CENSORSHIP! Nothing is being removed from games or kept from us (us=adults). If this was censorship, we'd have it like germany where any game with nazi symbols (Return to castle wolfenstein) are banned. That is not going to happen.
Fri Jul 29, 2005 10:59 am
John_Bono_Smithy_Satchmo
Joined: Nov 13, 2002
Post subject:
For one, cigarettes and alcohol are illegal to minors because they're more dangerous to the body because it's less physically developed, not because they're more likely to become addicted to those substances (or so the standard rationale goes).
And for those looking for a source of youth violence, you'll have to find it first. _________________ This space left intentionally blank.
Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:45 pm
AdmiralGreer
Joined: Nov 08, 2002
Post subject:
John_Bono_Smithy_Satchmo wrote:
For one, cigarettes and alcohol are illegal to minors because they're more dangerous to the body because it's less physically developed, not because they're more likely to become addicted to those substances (or so the standard rationale goes).
And keep in mind the US has one of the higest drinking ages in the free world. As well as draconian-level ID checks (When I see 50 year old men carded, I want to cry). Just imagine the chances of beer vending machines in the US...
The end of the article is right. The youth violence pandemic can probably be accounted for in that whole "Culture of Fear" thing. Now the question is who's responsible? _________________ Ice cream has this erotic sense to it- kinda like the one choclate and strawberries have.
-Me
Fri Jul 29, 2005 4:10 pm
John_Bono_Smithy_Satchmo
Joined: Nov 13, 2002
Post subject:
I have to place the blame on the media, not because it's convenient or the popular scapegoat, but because they are where we get the (false) news of a supposed "wave of youth violence". The only significant increase in crime over the last fifty years has been in the reporting of it. _________________ This space left intentionally blank.
Fri Jul 29, 2005 4:53 pm
KingSpanky
Joined: Dec 25, 2004
Post subject:
John_Bono_Smithy_Satchmo wrote:
For one, cigarettes and alcohol are illegal to minors because they're more dangerous to the body because it's less physically developed, not because they're more likely to become addicted to those substances (or so the standard rationale goes).
I've already read that article. I'm not saying videogames are the root of violence in Youth. Hell, even I know that. But like I said, the media, parents, and more importantly, the politicians can't seem to catch on to common sense. The only reason I would ever support something like this is if it did two things: Restricted the minors and didn't mess with my right to buy an uncensored game. This ban met both requirements.
Another reason I support this ban is because parents can't seem to get it through their head that if a game receives a rating, it usually has a damned good reason. You may not agree with it, but simply buying the game for your kid as a way of rebelling is just insane.
If you oppose these types of bans, then fine! Buy the game and give it to your kid. Just realize that by doing so, you give up the right to sue the industry for putting out that game.
Bottom line is that if you feel this is censorship, just buy the game for your kid. Its not imposing on your right to do that.
Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:54 pm
D-boy
Joined: Mar 28, 2005
Post subject:
I only wish this would happen in my state. As John Bono said, it's still only voluntary. And in all the years I've played video games I've only seen one store that tells parents/guardians what they're buying for their kids.
It's fun to watch, I've seen a boy come to the register with his grandma trying to buy some generic military FPS, being refused, then leaving the store with a copy of sonic and an angry grandmother.
I used to be the kid trying to get a copy of gta3 from blockbuster, or trying to borrow M games from friends. But until now I never understood why I couldn't play those games. Everyone else could. But now I can see that my parents were doing the right thing.
Now that I've finished that, yes, I am a "teen."
Sat Jul 30, 2005 8:10 am
Berserk_Fury
Joined: Aug 28, 2004
Post subject:
AdmiralGreer wrote:
And keep in mind the US has one of the higest drinking ages in the free world. As well as draconian-level ID checks (When I see 50 year old men carded, I want to cry). Just imagine the chances of beer vending machines in the US...
The end of the article is right. The youth violence pandemic can probably be accounted for in that whole "Culture of Fear" thing. Now the question is who's responsible?
Speaking of drinking ages in the USA. Something confuses me. The army or the navy can put an ak in an 18-year old arms and send you to shoot people, get shot or even get killed in another country when most of the time those people don't even know why they are fighting and who is the real enemy, but 2 years later when you come back home with bullet holes all over your body and you go to a bar, guess what, you are 20 and you can't get a drink. What the hell is up with that. I mean you can get killed fighting someone else's battles, but you can't get a drink at a bar?
And another thing, the army has a game called "America's Army" This game is free and you can ether get it of their website or order a cd. This game includes blood and shooting other people just like the rest of fps games. But guess what, most of the fps games are rated "M" for over 17, but this game isn't, it is rated "T". I very well understand why it is rated like that. The army has to get young people to joing it. IF someone is 17 or older, they will probably not be affected with how "fun" the war in games is since they could play other war games. If a teen gets this game and his parrents don't buy or let him play "M" rated games, he might get attracted and joing the army when he/she turns 18.
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