Adult Swim: Bad for Animation?

Andromaton · **Andromaton**

Here's a gem of a quote from Cartoon Network's Mike Lazzo, who heads up the network's "Adult Swim" block:

"We knew adults really didn't care about the quality of animation. With children, if you had something brightly colored and moving, you could make it go. But with adults, they become bored pretty quickly with the dancing brooms unless it's exceedingly well done. From the start, words were more important than pictures."

It is utterly astonishing for one of the top executives at a TV channel called CARTOON Network, which specializes solely in ANIMATION, to have the audacity to say that the very reason for the network's existence is not a concern of his and that audiences also don't care about it. So if the pictures are mere afterthought, then somebody kindly explain why the hell does Cartoon Network even exist?

Quote taken from here

So how do you react to this?

Daikun · **Daikun**

Home Movies and Aqua Teen Hunger Force have crappy animation styles, yet they're getting high ratings...for some odd reason...

Andromaton · **Andromaton**

So you agree, adults don't care about the quality of animation at all.

Nobuyuki · **Nobuyuki**

Regarding the mainstream audience, I think Lazzo's right for the most part.

Given a choice, I always prefer well-written, entertaining stories over empty, flashy graphics.

The enthusiasts' (me included) ideal, of course, is to have both. However, Williams Street's budget won't allow the eyecandy, so they try to put the emphasis on writing. Some of it's hit-and-miss, but when it connects... w00t!
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Chibi_Zero · **Chibi_Zero**

I'm going to agree with Nobu on this one
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Zechs · **Zechs**

The quality of the animation really only depends on what type of program it's supposed to be.

If the show is created to be dramatic or epic, good animation is needed to convey that so you done focus on why Character B's hands are drawn like two hams shanks.

"Bad or unrealistic animation" is in most cases, inherently funny and is why animators use it. I.E South Park, Early Simpsons, ATHF, Sealab. The focus is on the comedic aspect and thus the animators are allowed more freedom and script-writing time.
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Andromaton · **Andromaton**

So, are you saying that you would enjoy say... the Gundam series as much if not moreso if it were well written but had animation of the quality of Home Movies? Or does the formula only apply to american series? Or even more specific --american comedy? Would Slayers be as good if it were animated like Southpark?

Daikun · **Daikun**

I think it depends on the genre. The more serious it is, the better the animation style. If it's comical, though, let the animators have the freedom to choose.

(Edited to make more sense.)

Andromaton · **Andromaton**

so you're saying that it being funny means they shouldn't put as much effort into making good animation, there just isn't a need for it. So just because a series has writers who have a stick up the ass of the stick that's up their ass it automaticly needs primo animation.

Bill Plympton: "Animation, for me, is the truest art form because the fantasies I have in my head really would be very difficult to do in live action. Animation seems to be the purest art form to expressing those visuals. And I must say they mostly are *visual*. I’m not a very good writer in terms of dialogue and scripting. I’m a visual person, and, for me, the subconscious of the brain really hatches these incredibly surrealistic and bizarre images."

Daikun · **Daikun**

Cooolcorey · **Cooolcorey**

Andromaton · **Andromaton**

Ah but MS Gundam doesn't really count as of its age in the fact that all television animation from that era looks like crap no matter which side of the pond.

counterparadox · **counterparadox**

I think you're taking this as a personal insult, Spookman. You shouldn't be.

Let me say a few things. And you know that I agree with you on a LOT of animation stuff. Nearly all.

First of all, and I've said this before, animation is only good if it fits the feeling of the writing. South Park has good animation. Why? Because if it looked like Cowboy Bebop or Batman Beyond, it would suck. Also, they can crank out a show in a week, making episodes that are EXTREMELY relevant. That's a plus for them.

Cartoon Network is a business. The reason I love them so much is that they seem to realize that the public likes high quality animation, and a lot of diversity in animation. Hence Adult Swim Action, Adult Swim Comedy, Toonami, Miguzi, Cartoon Cartoon Fridays, Looney Toons, Scooby Doo, and a whole slew of others. They show old school and new school. They show high quality animation with not the most thought provoking plots (Inu Yasha, Kenshin, others), they show cartoons with crappy animation and good writing (Sealab, Space Ghost, others), and they show cartoons with both good animation AND good plot (Witch Hunter Robin, Trigun, Cowboy Bebop, Batman, Superman, Justice League, soon to be Megas XLR (at least hopes are high for that one)).

Point is that cartoon Network shows a lot of diversity, and has done the opposite of MTV. Instead of killing what it's named after, it has caused it ot thrive. Cartoons are MUCH more popular than they were 5 years ago. It used to be that if I mentioned DBZ, people would look at me and laugh. Now I say that I watched it and people are like "Damn man that's like middle school crack, I was into that!"

Cartoon Network has caused animation to thrive.

But it's still a business. They still need to make money. And shows for adults don't need flashy graphics, because Sealab is sitll better than things they grew up with (Like you said, at the time of MS Gundam, all animation looked like crap) So you can keep the quality down, make money, and thus keep AS alive.

Would higher quality be nice? Yes. Is it needed for Miguzi and ASA and Toonami to live? Yes, they need flashy stuff. Is high quality needed for ASC? Only to a certain extent. Sad? Depends on your viewpoint. I completely understand their viewpoint. And as long as ASC is alive, then that's a huge foothold for a whole genre of cartoon. So I say let it thrive any way it can.
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Andromaton · **Andromaton**

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Andromaton: thought we could use one, saw that article and thought "this should be fun"
Andromaton: plus it was a point of view that could easily be thought to be mine
Zechs875: most people have alot of opinions on the subject
Andromaton: all seemingly opossing that one
Zechs875: well what do you believe?
Andromaton: I'm in between on it
Zechs875: I just really get tired of american artists hating anime
Andromaton: I do think that story is important, but not at the sake of the animation
Andromaton: anime has its place
Zechs875: it used to be anime was what got people intrested in animation
Andromaton: as does american
Zechs875: but now all the american artists act all high and mighty
Andromaton: it's the anime fans that piss me off, the ones who claim anime superiority yet do not see anime's flaws
Andromaton: the biggest thing I've seen from japan in their animation is their ability to disguise their cheapness
Andromaton: I'm not saying that's a bad thing, well, not entiurely
Zechs875: well like I've told you a few times
Zechs875: one of the big appeals of anime is the community not so much the product
Andromaton: but they also let that cheapness flow into their "mainstream" big budget movies as well. It's only now that those practices are being done away with in the top echilon of japanese animators
Zechs875: I think since you've become an artist yourself
Zechs875: you focus far more on the things that a normal fan wouldn't
Andromaton: japan's biggest plus is that they have learned how to use what they got effeciantly, we american studios are just now realising that we have to. We can't have the giant bloated budgets... they just don't work.
Zechs875: did you see Home On The Range?
Andromaton: animation has always been art first, entertainment second to me-- since I was a wee lad
Andromaton: no, but that was on account of a personal boycott of rosanne
Zechs875: lol
Zechs875: they got her to do a voice?
Andromaton: the main one
Zechs875: rofl
Andromaton: yeah
Zechs875: I should have noticed

John_Bono_Smithy_Satchmo · **John_Bono_Smithy_Satchmo**


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