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Toonami Infolink :: View topic - Your Questions about BIG O, because we know you have them
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Well lets see I just watched it. And the first 20 minutes I went "YEAH BABY! A proper ending.. yeah good going animators. Finally some payoff. And the last 10 minutes i was thinking "okay... i um... wait that couldnt happen its... WTF... should i be happy or cry?... But where did that weapons come from?! Is that why its called Big O?!..."
Give me a minute while i finish some ingame stuff to do the review. I will try my best i promise. But it aint gonna be easy.
No wait Bloodfin's loading.. (lowers head in hands)...
**********SPOILERS**************
TiVo decided i needed to miss the opening and the first couple of minutes. So we open with the continuing battle of Big O and Big Fau. Roger says something propethic and long winded as usual. And goes in with his jackhammer attack. And... What?! Fao has a force field?! Since when?! Okay so Roger pounds away and Rosewater laughs at him.
Cut to Angel talking to the elder Rosewater. And her wings start to light up. Gordon tells her about her being a memory and starts to take her down a big elevator.
Back at the big battle. Everyones watching the fight. The Military Police have there howitzers pointed at Big O. Dastun throws a fit over this and throws in his badge. He then hijacks a tank and fires at Fau. Fau turns around and blows his tank up. He gets out.
TWo divisions of the MPs come to help Dastun. You are proud they have revolted against their masters! Yeah! Go MP's! Time to see the MP's as more then pawns. Yeah! Hey look Fau's got backwards facing lasers. He wouldnt... but the writers just made us like these faceless bastards. Yep all dead except Dastun.
Okay Fau turns on his Duo blades and tears a hole in Big O's crew accomondations.
Dorothy wakes up in the mansion. Bink's (or whatever yellow dudes name is) goes nuts as the, un-needed, comic relief in episode 26.
Fau is pulling Big O thru the streets. The people of Paradigm watch this all on there TV's. Fau drops Big O in the river. Because of the hole in Big O's chest. Water invade the crew compartment.
Big Fau becomes one with Gordon. Jacking into his back and spine. Gordon decides that Fau can try as much as it wants but hes still in control.
Hey doesnt Dorothys control computer look like an hour glass?! Nah...
Okay Roger decides that he and Big O dont need to merge. And Dorothy equipped with wetsuit and oxygen saves Roger.
Roger uses the pile driver to launch himself to the surface
(plot holes... first the pile driver is a compressed air attack. This is under water. Second hole Roger is human the bends would have killed him)
Fau uses his main attack against O. He shoots his entire arms at O! OH NO the heroes going to lose. But no O just holds them and crushes them in his hands. The controls fall around Roger and the new big controller comes out. Big O goes into super Knight Rider mode. And opens up everywhere. Exposing the great big cannon out of his model. This seems to be an additional extension of the Angry Gohan attack from several episodes ago. And fires!
Yeah Fau's dead.... No wait hes still half there.
Oh yeah at this point angel has grown wings and is the director of this entire fake world. But do you care about this part?
So Fau gets his big canon and his about to fire on Roger when...
Big Venus shows. Wait Big Venus you say?! Yes this is the great big mega deuse that towers over all others. With the head of the proto-deuce and mostly Big O parts. It kills Fau and Gordon once and for all.
Big O wants to fight it. But Roger stops him. Oh yeah Dorothy has become O's core memory for this battle? Did I forget that part?
So Roger decides to have a conversation with Big Venus (so named by Dorothy) and to tell Angel to stop this madness. While the entire world becomes a holodeck around them. Big Venus and Big O - Opposites of each other. Merge into each other and become nothing. You see Angel shed a tear over a TV Console.
End of series....
Credits.... You see Angle and Dorothy on a street corner and see the beginning of episode 1 replaying itself.
*************SPOILERS OVER****************
Im still not sure how i feel about this. But it does open up the ability to have season 3. Felt a little to matrix for my tastes.
Last edited by Fodder on Mon Nov 03, 2003 9:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
Mon Nov 03, 2003 9:11 pm
JJc14
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
i'm still letting everything sink in, and i'm expecting it to take another day or two before i can put together some sort of review...
one thing i can say though, collegebum could not have possibly picked a better title for this big o discussion thread... _________________ "Life's a journey, not a destination..." -Aerosmith ('Amazing')
Current RPG(s): (None)
Mon Nov 03, 2003 9:31 pm
Fodder
Joined: Apr 02, 2003
Post subject:
Well i put up my review but I did it as an edit. One kind of big thing i missed
*************SPOILER*************************
Roger sees a production line of Roger Smiths all starting life as droids.
Oh and the informant whos been at that same bar with his ear to the ground? You know guy reading some future part of the script to Roger to help his negotiations? Seems hes a droid guys. And you learn this the moment before hes blown up.
The shot of angel getting her true wings is amazing. And simply the best animation in season 2 bar none. Remember in Wing when some of the feathers fall? Just like that but done more romantically.
Animation for this episode was actually pretty good. It seems they used the last of the budget on this one. I can honestly say i couldnt find much to fault.
Oh yeah the elder Rosewater yells at the director "Fill these pages" holds up Metropolis "With our history!" and it is filled up.
As Paradigm is turned into a holodeck illusion. You basically realize that every character you care about what just 0's and 1's. Really kind of depressing.
I just realized i could drag this post on and on. My minds wrapping itself around the episode finally
Mon Nov 03, 2003 9:38 pm
Kalma
Joined: Nov 03, 2003
Post subject:
Ok, so if you still dont get it raise your hand.
If you think it makes perfect sense now (like I do) then raise your hand and say that you get it.
Anyway I believe that they either had no time (episode time limit) or intentionally left out the negotiations between when R. Dorothy at the end says "Roger the Negotiator" and the newly created city. In short, Roger and Angel negotiated a deal that was to put the city back to the way it was before the Bigs attacked early in season one.
Oh and did anyone see just for a brief second that in the monitor room on the desk the book said Metropolis By: Angel Rosewater. Important? I think so.
Mon Nov 03, 2003 10:38 pm
CollegeBum
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
OK...MY turn to lay in some theories.
OK reasons for "resetting the stage", erasing everyones memories.
NOw we know that Angel is the one who did all this.
The first flash back Roger ever had, the ones with the Bigs destorying the stage. Basicly too many people like Alex had controle of Bigs and took out there power on the city. Then I guess Big Venus came along and reset every thing.
2nd Resetting: When they showed the battle of the bigs fighting the Levithans and I guess it came down to just Roger in his Big O and he some how got killed. Angel who we know loves Roger reset the stage again, but this time she reset her self.
We all know what happens next
NOw the last time the stage was reset it was made to where Roger would have a happy life, as the same for Angel and Dorthy. I read this somewhere, but at the begaining of the very first eps when Roger drove over that grate, the grate kind of popped up or something.
But when they showed that at the end of Eps 26, the grate didnt pop up or anything, symbolizing that Roger was going to go down a road of happness.
Ill hit everyone up with some more later. _________________ \\m// (>_<) \\m//
Thats what it is all about!
Mon Nov 03, 2003 11:14 pm
Nobuyuki
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
Fodder wrote:
Hey doesnt Dorothys control computer look like an hour glass?! Nah...
Sure, why not?
Considering the concept of how an hourglass works metaphorically. There's a finite amount of time captured in one and when that runs out, you have to turn it upside-down and it starts over.
And hourglasses have been there since the beginning of the series.
But there's hardly any clocks, which continue time forward to infinity. _________________ "When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."- C.S. Lewis
"Superman can't be emo. He can't cut himself."-CP
Tue Nov 04, 2003 12:12 am
Fodder
Joined: Apr 02, 2003
Post subject:
Actually I meant the thing about the hour glass to be sort of a joke. Becauase if you watch it as Gordon gets more and more angry it changes. And right before the finale it makes one final move to tell you whats about to happen.
Tue Nov 04, 2003 8:15 am
Goldfinger2K
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
After reading everything from that guy's website to the stuff here on the board, I feel very enlightened. yay!
peace _________________ "one time yug!-Steve O Fuss
Y.U.G.
"If I threw a stick would you go away?"-a shirt
"Toonami, better than getting kicked in the nuts!"-me
"If I was so inclined, I would have groped you five times!"^O^hohohohoho!-Vash
Tue Nov 04, 2003 3:57 pm
counterparadox
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
Kalma wrote:
Oh and did anyone see just for a brief second that in the monitor room on the desk the book said Metropolis By: Angel Rosewater. Important? I think so.
Yep, I caught that too. Very important. And welcome to the board, Kalma. _________________ anime is teh s uck
Play City of Heroes/Villians? Look me up, Pinnacle server, @C Paradox
Tue Nov 04, 2003 4:02 pm
Kalma
Joined: Nov 03, 2003
Post subject:
Yes, it's nice to be here.
BTW, did anyone notice how important Beck was during the final battle?
He told R. Dorothy how to activate "Big O: Final Mode."
Roger: How did you know?
R. Dorothy: A man with curly hair and a gaudy suit told me.
Roger: Heh, <some remark I forgot>.
Tue Nov 04, 2003 9:12 pm
Fodder
Joined: Apr 02, 2003
Post subject:
I must have missed something. He told her how to do it? When?
Wed Nov 05, 2003 8:25 am
Kalma
Joined: Nov 03, 2003
Post subject:
Did you read what I said? It happens probly during Roger's flash backs in the sinking Big O. We know that it happened because R. Dorothy said it did.
Wed Nov 05, 2003 3:07 pm
counterparadox
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
Beck pulls on gun on Dorothy and Norman, conversation ensues, Beck says some stuff. Scene switches to Roger almost drowning. Between those two moments, there is conversation that we don't see, in which Beck tells Dorothy about the MEGE Weapon. Which, by the way, was super cool. And I don't care that Roger was off center on his aim, I went back and watched it again, and he blew off more than half of Big Fau's left leg. Big Fau's leg would have crumpled and he would have fallen. Stupid fake world not relying on stupid physics . . . _________________ anime is teh s uck
Play City of Heroes/Villians? Look me up, Pinnacle server, @C Paradox
Wed Nov 05, 2003 4:56 pm
Fodder
Joined: Apr 02, 2003
Post subject:
So basically after two seasons. We're supposed to sit here and accept the ending? No i want episode 27 where Roger wakes up from this dream. He looks down in his bed to see the head of a tomato staring back at him.
Now that its had a chance to digest a little. I dont like this ending one bit. Why make me care about all this characters if really it comes down to two characters? And why do all this about Big O being alive if really its all part of the illusion.
Wed Nov 05, 2003 6:36 pm
counterparadox
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
Because the illusion is run at least half by Roger. Big O is an aspect of his own mind. As if his sub-coucsious takes on a life of it's own. If Big O is alive, then that means that Roger does things he doesn't know about. If Big O merges with Roger, it means that Roger has given into, I would say, his Id. Thats how I see it.
I think the show is meant to speak about the influence of one person. Roger influences an entire world through the use of Big O, which, if it is his sub conscious, then he controls the world using nothing more than his brain. When the world is reduced down to only him and Angel, then the show speaks of how one person can influences another's life. How one person can prevent the destruction of the world. The show is about INFLUENCE and INTEGRITY. Roger does what is right not because he is paid to do so, but instead because it is the RIGHT thing to do. Roger is virtuous. Roger is the Jesus figure if Angel is the Lucifer figure. Roger is able to change pure evil into good. There IS a point to the story, it's just that it isn't one anyone saw coming.
Think about it. Datsun stood up for his integrity. And because of it, his men backed him up when it counted most, even though they didn't really exist . . . Integrity.
Beck gave Dorothy the information that Roger needed. Why? Why did he not shoot her? The point of Beck is that something can be gained even from the most annoying and persistent of enemies. Roger NEEDED Beck, but who would have guessed that? Point? Even those you hate are necessary. VERY loving concept: VERY Christian, VERY Buddhist, VERY Jain, VERY Hindu.
What about Rosewater, piloting Big Fau? He was taken over by his Id. Roger's aim wasn't off. Roger doesn't kill. Roger can't kill. Roger won't kill. But Rosewater had no integrity, so Big Fau disobeyed him, and subsequentially took him over.
Wow, I like this whole 'looking at things symbolically' thing . . . _________________ anime is teh s uck
Play City of Heroes/Villians? Look me up, Pinnacle server, @C Paradox
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