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Christmas was a Pagan holiday that got a Christian label stuck on it when the Brits got pissed off about not being able to celebrate a lot of there stuff anymore. It made the transition easier.
*It drives me crazy to see everyone so stuck on the idea that Christmas was instituted as a replacement for some pagan holiday (yule, I believe?) that took place- and for some, continues to take place- during the winter season. It's as if that little fact totally discredits the validity of Christmas. (To some people I know, it discredits Christian validity as well.)
It has been my experience that the date of a holiday doesn't count at all- only its meaning does. Was Christ born on December 25? Most likely not. Who would know? They didn't have the same calendars back then. But that's not the point. The point is that we set aside some time of the year to remember that God sent His son down to Earth to save its people.
Another case in point: The Fourth of July. Nobody who lived on July 4, 1776 thought it to be an important day. Not everyone signed the Declaration of Independence on that day (in fact, only two people did), Heck, the Declaration of Independence wasn't even that important of a document. The only thing that was important was the fact that the colonies agreed to become independent of England- an event that occured on July 2, 1776. People set off fireworks that year, not on July 4, but on whatever day they happened to hear the news. Yet we remember and commemorate that idea on July 4, every year, celebrating the fact that we became a country, that America is great, yada yada yada. That's the important thing.
As for the whole Christmas thing, we have lost the meaning of it, at least here in the United States. I'll give that to you. If you're going to dismiss the validity of Christmas, dismiss it based on that. It doesn't matter whether or not it was a pagan holiday. Now it's just a secular capitalist holiday that uses a Christian mask sometimes. How the hell did that happen? And I'm tired of it. Tired of being sucked into commercialization and obligation. Tired of being somebody's obligation and having to fake appreciation for their hurriedly-bought thoughtless gifts- tired of seeing the faked appreciation in response to my own humble offerings.
Okay... I feel a tangent coming on.... I'll just conclude right now.*
Wed Dec 25, 2002 11:34 pm
The_Nightweaver
Joined: Dec 14, 2002
Post subject:
Wow...and here I thought I did pretty good this Xmas by genuinely liking all of my stuff and really enjoying giving to other people... _________________ I have not yet begun to bitch.
Thu Dec 26, 2002 2:54 am
stFalcon5
Joined: Nov 04, 2002
Post subject:
And if you're Jewish, all you have to do is go to a Chinese restaurant. _________________ "KUSANAGI!"
Thu Dec 26, 2002 11:11 am
counterparadox
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
Sabra, why did you write in black text? _________________ anime is teh s uck
Play City of Heroes/Villians? Look me up, Pinnacle server, @C Paradox
Thu Dec 26, 2002 12:16 pm
gfpaperboy22
Joined: Oct 31, 2002
Post subject:
w00t! THANK YOU EL NINO!!! My home state was hit by a white out and I finally got to have a white christmas. Its such a rare thing to see snow in oklahoma much less 10 inches of it. _________________ I'm getting too old for this. :SNAP: OH GOD, MY HIP!
Thu Dec 26, 2002 1:04 pm
John_Bono_Smithy_Satchmo
Joined: Nov 13, 2002
Post subject:
Wait, wait wait. Which "true meaning" of Christmas are we referring to here. The kindness and goodwill thing. Well, I'm all for that, except shouldn't we be projecting that every day? I know I do--well, at least usually.
Or are we referring to this whole "birth of the son of God" thing. Because I'll argue against that load of BS until clouds part and I'm struck down. I really can't buy some infinite being meddling in his own crations so much at a time when the world was going pretty well. Not just that, but all the other prophecy stuff and such that we see before, and a bit after this time. An all-powerful being would use MUCH more subtle influences. Part two of my argument: why are we celebrating a man? Why do we put up big statues of Jesus nailed to a cross (even though that seems like commemorating the death of soldier by erecting statues of him getting shot to death)? Why exactly is there such a hoopla about a Man, and not his Ideas? Well, I'll tell you a little secret that you've known all your life. We're all idiots. We can't wrap our minds around things like being unconditionally nice or good. But we can bring a person up or down to our level, compare them to ourselves, and shout "huzzah!" So, instead of embracing the poor fellas teachings, we go and do what he's been fighting against the whole time. We go out and carve engraven images in his name. We worship him. We even have the foolishness and audacity to thank and curse his name. Are we really so dense? I say yes, but that's just me.
Once again I prove organized religion redundant, pointless, and self-defeating. _________________ This space left intentionally blank.
Thu Dec 26, 2002 11:32 pm
John_Bono_Smithy_Satchmo
Joined: Nov 13, 2002
Post subject:
Sorry to double post, but, yes, everyone, Sabra has properly chastised me for her previous post. It's okay, you can put the flamethrower down, NW. _________________ This space left intentionally blank.
Sat Dec 28, 2002 7:24 pm
counterparadox
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
Chastized you for her post? What? _________________ anime is teh s uck
Play City of Heroes/Villians? Look me up, Pinnacle server, @C Paradox
Sun Dec 29, 2002 11:49 am
Spookmonkey
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
exactly what I thought too cp. in the imortal words of the confused, "huh?" _________________ "Veni. Vedi. Spooki." - Julius Caesar
I came. I saw. I spooked.
Is it me, or has Bono become more confuzzaling lately? _________________ anime is teh s uck
Play City of Heroes/Villians? Look me up, Pinnacle server, @C Paradox
Sun Dec 29, 2002 4:25 pm
stFalcon5
Joined: Nov 04, 2002
Post subject:
It's very simple.
Drugs + feud between the Leprechaun on your shoulder and the voices in your head + computer = bad posts _________________ "KUSANAGI!"
Sun Dec 29, 2002 5:57 pm
SabraDova
Joined: Nov 23, 2002
Post subject:
cp: *I wrote in black because I'm not supposed to exist here anymore. I've officially "vanished".* But due to popular demand, I'm writing like I haven't left.
John did mean that I chastised him about his message. I did give him the option of posting it or not, but I changed my mind.
and did post it, but have since changed my mind again. I just wasn't in a good mood at the time, and no one should be subjected to that (except John). Sorry that you read all that, NightWeaver.
Last edited by SabraDova on Mon Dec 30, 2002 2:01 am; edited 1 time in total
Sun Dec 29, 2002 11:17 pm
The_Nightweaver
Joined: Dec 14, 2002
Post subject:
Athiesm isn't a religion, hon. It's the absence of all religion. I may be totally blasted but at least I know THAT.
Don't worry, guys, it's not going to get us anywhere arguing with such a devout individual as SabraDova. Let's just agree to disagree, because religious discussions have gotten us nowhere on these boards. _________________ I have not yet begun to bitch.
Mon Dec 30, 2002 1:07 am
Spookmonkey
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
i like snow _________________ "Veni. Vedi. Spooki." - Julius Caesar
I came. I saw. I spooked.
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