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Toonami Infolink :: View topic - The Matrix: Red pill Blue pill, so many choices.
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I think that from reloaded there waere several possibilities as to where the movie could have gone. I guess since a lot of people didn't like reloaded too much being that they didn't understand, or thought they understood but didn't, or found it too convoluted. So to finalize the trilogy I feel like the Wachowskis sold out to the more popular demand for a simpler ending, and to people like us, it's really not what we were looking for. I mean if big O would have just been, yay Roger whooped Big Fau and everything's great again, I think most would be quite disappointed.(sorry to cross topics).
I guess Matrix was the fated Jesus parallel after all, which would have been the most obvious answer since the first movie but that's what gets me down about it.
peace _________________ "one time yug!-Steve O Fuss
Y.U.G.
"If I threw a stick would you go away?"-a shirt
"Toonami, better than getting kicked in the nuts!"-me
"If I was so inclined, I would have groped you five times!"^O^hohohohoho!-Vash
Sun Nov 09, 2003 1:14 pm
MrNeo
Joined: Nov 08, 2003
Post subject:
Neo has nothing to do with the matrix neo, at least not anymore.
It's just a word...I dont know why I chose it, maybe because its close to my real name? Who Knows. _________________ For long you live and high you fly
And smiles you'll give and tears you'll cry
And all you touch and all you see
Is all your life will ever be.
Sun Nov 09, 2003 7:45 pm
Spookmonkey
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
hey, I thought revolutions was great and had no problems with the ending. _________________ "Veni. Vedi. Spooki." - Julius Caesar
I came. I saw. I spooked.
In response to bad reviews of Matrix Revolutions film, I try and shed some light on its significance. Despite practically every critic slamming it, I want to give you my perspective. It does not give you all the truths to the film, but hopefully you will have a much higher appreciation for it. I warn readers, DO NOT READ THIS IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO BE SPOILED.
From day one, the Matrix saga has kept up a theme that lived within the character's actions and names. I am not talking about simple representations of names, but on a much deeper level how they react because of those names. The first Matrix film opened up our eyes to another world and reality, and did it simply, and therefore it was good. Yet, I ask you, does the finest poetry or best piece of art have to completely explain itself. Of course not. But, unfortunately critics are not ready for a film of this poetic magnitude.
Reloaded and Revolutions gradually unveil the machine's true intentions and motivations through very, and I mean very, subtle cues. Whether or not you'll be astonished by this truth, I am not sure, but the Matrix IS completely fueled by religious beliefs, which in turn give the human race hope and PURPOSE. I am not talking about praying at mass here, I'm talking about everything we know about Greek mythology or Christianity lives and breaths in the Matrix, and was created by machines. Why you may ask? How else could they control an entire species of intellectuals who do not have a purpose or hope in enslavement. How about the ones that specifically reject the matrix? Will more and more keep rejecting it? No, religion is made by the machines to keep humans in their slumber. Yet, this is not necessarily a malicious intent. If you watched the animatrix prequel you would understand the unusual sympathy that the machines give human despite their cruelties. It is a war going on, BUT the machines keep the humans in their tubes until it is proven that peace is possible. Machines are the logical creatures in the world, they do what they need to survive based on equations, and they are waiting for the time that they can once again co-exist with humanity without having it as a mathematical threat. That's where NEO comes in. Neo is obviously a Christ/ Jesus/ messiah character. Yet it is ironic that he is most likely less human than everyone else. Neo, meaning one, has no family whatsoever, he constantly questions as illustrated though Neo asking `why' every 5 seconds in all 3 films. Neo is most likely 'grown' or constructed by the machines. Whoa. Too much to handle? Let me give you some more background material before I go on.
First of all, let's clear some names. Merovingian is closely linked to Hades. In fact he is Hades, and his wife as the tale suggests is Persephone, Monica Belluci. He controls the passage between worlds. The train man controls purgatory. Seraph, the Oracle's protector, is defined as the highest level of angel. What does he do in the movie? He's essential a guardian angel that protects. Now, the biggest truth. what is the Oracle? The oracle is the human god, in fact the New Testament God. It is a program made by the machines with a lot of power to give us hope. GOD must therefore have a human sentiment; unlike the Architect who represents the Old Testament God (the two are obviously very different in the movie and Bible). Yet, the Oracle like the Christian New Testament God knows everything and is all-powerful, but can not control free will. That is why she can not decide what CHOICES people will make, especially Neo. Neo is the most interesting of them all. Like Jesus who was made in our image but given God's power. Neo is made in our image with god-like (the supreme god of everything is the machine god - face at end of film) machine powers. When Neo chooses to not make the LOGICAL, mathematical choice of choosing to save the human race, but rather picks the other door to save trinity, he does it for emotion; something a machine is not supposed to understand. Granted I can not argue that neo is a machine, but it's possible. It's possible that he is super-genetically created by the machines. Nevertheless, the machines somehow give Neo his powers. Likewise, Agent Smith is created like Jesus (through Death) but is his negative, or the anti-Christ, the being that will bring judgment day with it to destroy everyone (takes over everyone's body)
As Neo starts to understand what he has to do in Purgatory, the train station, he can finally make the jump from hell (Zion) to heaven (machine city). This stuff is highly Dante symbolized. As Neo goes to the machine city, or Paradiso, he can not bring Trinity and he has to be blind. Dante was blinded by the lights (think about all the lights that Neo saw) and could not face God, sorry it had to be a machine people. but it is. Also for your information, Morpheus most likely symbolizes Virgil in Dante, because he can bring people back and forth through the worlds but not to heaven and he is the guide. Neo then sacrifices himself, just like Jesus did, so that peace can be restored, and the gates (of heaven) could be opened. The machines accept the peace because Neo gave away everything for the love of the human race, including himself. If he is somehow machine, it is more powerful that he has learned to love his enemy (TRINITY) and proves that humans are now ready for peace. Therefore the architect says at the end of the film that whoever wants to go will be able to, meaning that the Neo has finally opened the gates even if it is more of a figurative sense. The other 5-6 neo's did not accomplish this task. They could not sacrifice themselves for emotion. They did not understand love and they would not give up everything to make change, just as Jesus did.
If you do not trust my convictions, research for yourself the Judgment day in the bible. Research Dante's inferno, purgatorio and paradise. Then look up and research each of the character's names and how that relates to the movie. You will find yourself very surprised that everything seems to line up. Obviously there are many more questions to answer, and I do not have them. I find it completely fascinating that Wachowski brothers have created a modern Dante tale without anyone knowing it. I think most people were not ready to accept that religion is both artificial and real in this film world, and that even though religion might be fake in the matrix world it still does its purpose even in the real world. I find it absolutely fascinating that the Wachowski brothers have taken everything we visualize about the afterlife, and made it into a sci-fi universe, where heaven is actually a machine world and hell is a multi-leveled human city under ground. These ideas are all just as profound as the first matrix, but they did not shove it into our face and give us definite answers. The Wachowki brothers, on the other hand, had the ability because of their freedom (made so much money) that they could make art and not worry what the critics would say. I apologize that this is a winded and more of some kind of Emersonian train of thought explanation, but hopefully this will help people change their minds about it. Time will tell if the Matrix Revolutions is as profound as I believe it to be.
"Whoa, Shin, did you write that?" _________________ I shake like a toothache,
When I hear myself sing.
Oh, my lies are only wishes,
I know I will die if I could come back new
Wilco- Ashes of American Flags
Last edited by Green-Bird on Tue Nov 11, 2003 3:32 pm; edited 4 times in total
Mon Nov 10, 2003 3:42 pm
Goldfinger2K
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
Spookmonkey wrote:
hey, I thought revolutions was great and had no problems with the ending.
No. _________________ "one time yug!-Steve O Fuss
Y.U.G.
"If I threw a stick would you go away?"-a shirt
"Toonami, better than getting kicked in the nuts!"-me
"If I was so inclined, I would have groped you five times!"^O^hohohohoho!-Vash
Last edited by Goldfinger2K on Tue Nov 11, 2003 3:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
Mon Nov 10, 2003 3:42 pm
WhtHawk
Joined: Jan 30, 2003
Post subject:
Why? _________________ To do two things at once is to do neither. —Publilius Syrus, Roman slave, first century B.C.
Mon Nov 10, 2003 8:32 pm
MrNeo
Joined: Nov 08, 2003
Post subject:
But, unfortunately critics are not ready for a film of this poetic magnitude.
<--- Green Bird, thanks for the laughs. _________________ For long you live and high you fly
And smiles you'll give and tears you'll cry
And all you touch and all you see
Is all your life will ever be.
Mon Nov 10, 2003 9:11 pm
Green-Bird
Joined: Apr 14, 2003
Post subject:
Jesus Christ. I guess this did nothing to help your opinion of the movie. _________________ I shake like a toothache,
When I hear myself sing.
Oh, my lies are only wishes,
I know I will die if I could come back new
Wilco- Ashes of American Flags
Tue Nov 11, 2003 11:06 am
Goldfinger2K
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
I wasn't saying "no" to GB's post, I corrected my post read again.
I actually very much enoyed and was thinking along the same lines with the whole Jesus thing( did everyne else notice how a cross of light showed up inside Neo as he was dying by the Deus Ex Machina, and A cross of light also appeared as all the Smiths were being wiped out).
peace _________________ "one time yug!-Steve O Fuss
Y.U.G.
"If I threw a stick would you go away?"-a shirt
"Toonami, better than getting kicked in the nuts!"-me
"If I was so inclined, I would have groped you five times!"^O^hohohohoho!-Vash
Tue Nov 11, 2003 3:11 pm
Spookmonkey
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
Goldfinger2K wrote:
Spookmonkey wrote:
hey, I thought revolutions was great and had no problems with the ending.
No.
I didn't think I was asking a question to be answered. _________________ "Veni. Vedi. Spooki." - Julius Caesar
I came. I saw. I spooked.
_________________ "one time yug!-Steve O Fuss
Y.U.G.
"If I threw a stick would you go away?"-a shirt
"Toonami, better than getting kicked in the nuts!"-me
"If I was so inclined, I would have groped you five times!"^O^hohohohoho!-Vash
Wed Nov 12, 2003 9:55 am
dougisfunny
Joined: Oct 29, 2002
Post subject:
Spookmonkey wrote:
Goldfinger2K wrote:
Spookmonkey wrote:
hey, I thought revolutions was great and had no problems with the ending.
No.
I didn't think I was asking a question to be answered.
You thought wrong., I still have to see it. _________________ The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
Wed Nov 12, 2003 10:15 am
Beatdiggga
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
I'm comparing the middle to some techno Lord of the Rings. Neo's Frodo, heading to Mt. Doom to end the war. _________________ Sometimes I miss my sanity- Wedge Antilles
Wed Nov 12, 2003 1:02 pm
Goldfinger2K
Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Post subject:
I was watching a bit of Reloaded today, and I'm thinking it's a bit cooler than Revolutions (action/wise) the fights are a lot better, a LOT better.
peace _________________ "one time yug!-Steve O Fuss
Y.U.G.
"If I threw a stick would you go away?"-a shirt
"Toonami, better than getting kicked in the nuts!"-me
"If I was so inclined, I would have groped you five times!"^O^hohohohoho!-Vash
Last edited by Goldfinger2K on Fri Nov 14, 2003 1:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
Thu Nov 13, 2003 11:51 pm
Daikun
Joined: Nov 02, 2002
Post subject:
Well, I finally saw Revolutions today. It's not as great as the previous two movies, but that doesn't mean it's not enjoyable. It's kind of a mixed bag.
The special effects (the thing that The Matrix is most notable for) aren't really all that spectacular this time around. Impressive, perhaps, but not spectacular (though the heavy rain and water effects in the final battle with Agent Smith were pretty cool).
Remember when Agent Smith possessed that guy (I forget his name) in Reloaded and he was brought into the real world? Well, Smith's chance to shine in the real world was fucking CREEPY. The way he smoothly talked and acted like him, the way he killed someone, the way he infiltrated the borrowed ship that Neo used...yeesh!
Neo was a bit more naive in this movie than the prequels. He couldn't tell that the possessed guy in the real world was Smith and he kept asking him who he was. Uh, hello? Who's the only person in the world who refers to you as "Mr. Anderson?" Doi!
Agent Smith was actually EMOTIONAL in this movie! Instead of being the same, lifeless character who only showed the emotion of anger when Neo hit him, he actually showed some character development. In one scene, he actually LAUGHED! And after his final fight against Neo was over, he was afraid of Neo when he realized that a premonition he previously had wasn't turning out the way it should've been. And he showed confusion when he asked, "Why do you resist, Mr. Anderson? Why?" You can take it however you want, but personally, I don't like his new emotional side. His lack of emotions seemed to give him a darker, concernless feel to his character which made me like him as a villain in the earlier movies.
This movie focuses a lot more on the real world than the previous two movies did, so expect a lot more real world scenes and less Matrix scenes. We get a bigger look on Zion and see an actual human/computer rebellion take place. (It's about time it happened, right?) Some of it is fun and interesting, while some of it is rather dull, and the fight drags on for a long time.
For cameo appearances, the Architect comes back (as expected), as well as the "deja vu" cat from the first movie!
*checks clock*
...Holy crap! It's 4:30 in the morning! Man, how time flies! Ok, I need to get some sleep (I have an important meeting at college tomorrow), so I'll wrap this up quick.
Bottom line: If you liked Reloaded, you might like Revolutions. If you didn't like Reloaded, you might want want to stay away from this movie.
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Doi!